26 January 2012

Dear Sangha,

On January 1, 2012, Jo Ann and Alan Chinn  left our Sangha with no warning, sending one or more emails to all Sangha members they were leaving due to personal reasons which were unstated.  

I have heard this has had a ripple effect throughout our Sangha, as people wondered what has happened and have only heard from Jo Ann for her reasons if she is asked.

So, I want to set the record straight.

Jo Ann and Alan joined our Sangha during the middle of 2010, and rapidly took over the task of building an online Satsang from Janet Beier and Chris (Harrison).  

Both felt pushed aside because Jo Ann had the time and energy and technological experience to make it happen immediately, and I let her do it.  Also, Matthew Brown, who was working on other projects, found she had taken those over too.  Again, Jo Ann’s dedication, energy, and full-time focus allowed her to accomplish miracles in a short time.

However, I then learned that Jo Ann was spending many hours every week “working” with our Sangha members as a quasi therapist using Byron Katies’ “The Work,” as well as Levinson’s “The Release Technique,” to help people overcome whatever problems they had, while Alan was doing “energy” work with those who had illness or pain.

I did not know this.  Apparently many people in our Sangha thought these were my teachings as Jo Ann was at the center of everything done on the Internet.  In fact, our Sangha was as much hers as mine, since she built it and maintained complete control over every aspect.

Then during approximately early January of 2011, I confronted her on her teaching The Work and the Release Technique to our membership as these methods are completely alien to the teachings of Robert Adams and Jean Dunn (Nisargadatta), my two teachers.

Ultimately there was a rupture, which involved another Sangha member, and they left.

I am not organized and I am lazy.  I let people run the show who get things done, which alienates the people closest to me, who really come for the teachings.  This is my personality defect.  I like to let things unfold rather than take charge, therefore it appears others are in charge, and those others are always take-charge personalities who have their own separate agendas from that of spreading Robert’s and Nisargadatta’s teachings.

On December 31, 2011, I heard that Jo Ann was widely touting a book by Peter Dziubian called Consciousness is Everything, telling me and others than in reading it she had made more progress than in many months with me. 

          In fact, during this time, both Alan and Jo Ann were warning some of my students not to get too close to me for unstated reasons. I heard about this, and thought it was because they did not want others to get close to me who were not also close to them.  In fact, Alan stated directly to me that I was too much favoring certain students and he felt left out.

As Joan Burtner said:

This also explains why Alan turned more and more against me as I got closer to you.  He began to make nasty comments to me in front of others.  As this was happening I began to feel a sense of coldness from Jo-Ann as well.  I wasn't their 'project', couldn't be controlled so it all began to turn nasty. 

“Which also explains the often subtle warnings they would give to me about 'not getting too close' to you.  This happened often.  If they couldn't control whoever got close to you, they found a reason to turn them away or chase them away.

“So, when you began to give them less and less attention and they found out how much time you were spending with me they almost immediately turned me away.  But their turning me away didn't make me leave and this was threatening to their need for 'control'.  OMG, this is exactly what happened. ”

Joan was not the only person they chased away. They chased away Chris, calling him insane and exuding “dark energies,” Janet, who they deemed as a dangerous  manipulator, and even they tried with Mathew Brown, who refused to budge.  They also attacked Ruby as having “dark energies,” as well as others.  When both Rajiv and I said no one should be excluded from Satsang because of “dark energies,” the Chinns gave in.

I also found out that for months prior to her leaving, Jo Ann had been spending a lot of time with John Grenafege on skype, as well as with many other people in our Sangha discussing Peter’s book.  Jo Ann represented John as a “deeply enlightened dear friend,” who had been in hibernation after an awakening he had 3 years ago, and now wanted to come out into the world and teach.  Jo Ann never told me why she thought John was deeply enlightened, except that he appeared to favor this book by Dziubian. This I heard from another three other Sangha members just before January 1, and since.

This book they were recommending by Dziubian is pure neo-Advaita, exactly the kind of teaching and philosophy that I had been talking against for over two years, as it presents a totally conceptual view about consciousness, just words and concepts and definitions, such that after people read it, they feel as if they really understand the nature of Consciousness and their own true nature, but they really lack an experience of awakening.

Categorically, you cannot “get” awakening from a book.  You get concepts that convince your mind that you know that which cannot be known.  As Hui Neng said, “The only truth is that there is no truth; beware even of this truth.”  In other words, concepts can never provide an awakening. U.G. Krishnamurti said all concepts have to be shrugged off, and Robert said much the same to me.  For Robert, one goes in surrender to the guru to receive teachings, not with a book of concepts about consciousness.

Despite my constant warnings against such teachings, Jo Ann was pushing this book and these teachings within our Sahgha.

I sent an email to Jo Ann on January 1, 2012 stating these kinds of teachings were dangerous because they put concepts before experience, and can delay one’s awakening for a long time.  I stated that because of her high visibility in the Sangha, people assume that much of what she is saying is authorized by me, or that she has an elevated understanding because she is at the center of everything in our Sangha.

To which she replied she was not going to stop reading the book, nor stop talking to whomever she wants, when she wants about anything she wants.

Jo Ann writes:

You are reading from the Tiger's Cave, which makes absolutely no sense to me, and telling me how good it is.  

But when I find a book that does make a great deal sense to me and is having a profound impact, you quickly discount it as neo-advaitan???

I'll not bother you any more about this book, but I sure as hell am going to keep reading it!

Jo Ann’s inability to understand the teachings in the Tiger’s Cave indicates she had not yet gone deep.  Those teachings require a subtle and nuanced understanding, living from the heart and not the head.

In other words, Jo Ann had found teachings she could understand and with which she felt “progress,” as opposed to the teachings I was presenting, which took concepts away, making one more open, vulnerable, and in one’s heart. Jo Ann did not want vulnerability, she wanted something her mind could grasp and which she could teach.

The next day I, and several others, received an email from her saying she was leaving, calling me a liar several times, as well as a manipulator. 

After that, a whole bunch of people left without even a note, and I assume either because Jo Ann spread negativity gossip about me, or just because they suffered shock from the sudden break up.

Subsequent to their leaving, I have had people from all over the world tell me Jo Ann had been promoting these teachings, and her “Dear enlightened friend, John Grenafege” in intense Skype sessions lasting many hours, and had been doing so for months. I knew nothing of this.

I have recently heard from three different sources, one in Australia, another on the East Coast of the US, and another in Great Brtiain that the Chinns plan on starting a new satsang with John Grenafege.  My speculation, if this is true, is that John will be easier to control.  He has no nearby family or loved ones as opposed to many dedicated students who have opposed the Chinns grip on Satsang.

I had let the Chinns become the center of our Sangha rather than the teachings or my own contribution.  They interacted with everyone on an intense basis, with far more contact than I had with you. They had their own Satsang within our larger Sangha, and they were even warning people not to get too close to me.

This is my failure in every way.  I failed to take more direct control of day to day operations.  I failed to spend as much time with my students as the Chinns did.  I failed to present the teachings better, and I failed to warn people more about the dangers of reading too many books, especially neo advaita books.

Online Satsangs will return soon if the demand is there for them. Few have contacted me directly that they are wanted or needed. Usually fewer than 15 or 20 people ever showed up for online Satsangs.

I am continuing to work with Rajiv and some other students to establish an ashram.  An ashram setting provides for the kind of constant contact an ashram affords, that the synergistic energy for breakthroughs develops.

If anyone is interested in starting something in Los Angeles, please contact me.

Please contact me directly at satsang.online@gmail.com.

With Great Love,

 Edji


Below is a review of Dziubian’s book by Joan Burtner.  This is included as a warning.  This book can convince you that you are awakened and slow real progress of opening your heart; so read it at your own risk. I am taking this step as it appears that the Chinns have told many people in our Sangha about it, and this cannot go unopposed.
Joan:

About a year ago I read a book by Peter Francis Dziuban, titled Consciousness Is All.  The purpose of this writing is not to make a critique of this particular book in any detailed way, but to simply point out the overall conceptual nature of the book; conceptual, meaning that it is heavily laden with definitions and meanings of words and meanings about those words ad Infinitum.   It is a theoretical, conceptual masterpiece to be sure.

The purpose of the book, at least from my perspective, is not to invite the reader to ‘look within’ to discover their own nature, experientially, but rather to inform or rather precondition the reader’s mind as to what he or she would find if and when they did look. Even when the reader is directed to notice his or her own experience, the author goes on to postulate the outcome of that investigation.   Thus the investigation is already polluted by the mind.  And mind, through the power of words has the potential to create certain experiences.   

In Silence of the Heart, Robert Adams said this about Consciousness.  “Everything is Consciousness – everything.  When you ask, ‘What is Consciousness?’ there is no valid answer.  When someone asks me to write a book or give a lecture, then I have to explainConsciousness in about fifty different words, and each word has another fifty words to explain that, then those words have another fifty words.  So your volume of the book is written.  What does it say?  “Everything is Consciousness.”  I could have written one page.  And in the middle of that page I would say, “Everything is Consciousness,’ and the rest would be blank.  This is the reason I do not write books, because there is nothing to say.  See how confusing it is?  You read so many books during the week.  Usually you do not remember what you read, and if you do, it’s intellectual.  You are using somebody else’s words and not having your own experience.”

And yet, Peter manages to write a 327 page book about what Consciousness is.  It’s mental madness, but this is just my opinion. Here is but one tiny example of this mental madness. “If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?  Hint:  “Answer not a fool according to his folly.”  The real issue is not whether or not such an event occurs.  The issue isentirely a matter of identification.  The issue is whether the one to whom the question is asked, identifies as Present Consciousness, Infinite Being’s pure Isness – or with finite senses and time, is-not-ness.  In Truth, there is no choice; the Absolute Present One being All, leaves no finite time-sense to identify with or as.  Who is the only One present, existent, aware, alive?  Changelessly Present Consciousness.  It completely precludes such a finite time-event of a tree falling, and any questions being asked about it in Reality. To attempt to answer the question on its terms would imply there is time.  There isn’t.  That’s the answer.”  

For a few months after reading this book, there was a sort of intellectual bliss as my mind reveled in its ability to give an explanation about what someone else said about the nature of Consciousness, at least what I could mentally grasp.   I took great delight in being able to hold my own amongst my peers as we mentally masturbated as a group.  But the intellectual bliss wore off and the deep longing that had been numbed by it resurfaced.  There were no life changing experiences to speak of.   

I often hear New Agers and Neo-Advaitans speak of how it is easier to awaken now than it ever has been.  I cannot say.  Maybe it’s easier than ever to ‘imagine’ that one is awakened due to the abundance of material in the spiritual market place that makes such hype out of initial experiences.  These initial awakening experiences seem to be redefining freedom as a whole.  Robert Adams said, that there was probably never more than a handful of truly liberated beings on the earth at any one time. 

41 comments:

  1. jesus edji, it's all making sense now. she loved the attention,
    she wanted to pull it to herself.
    when i first started reading your blog, watching videos, etc.,
    everyone was always praising "Mamaji".

    "oh i feel such a warm feeling from the sangha because
    of Mamaji"

    "oh Mamaji, you're the best"

    it was all about her. and she was feeding on, loving
    the attention. actually, at the end of one or two of your
    recorded satsangs, she switched to her own

    camera for a few seconds before it ended. at the time
    i thought she made a technical error, but now i know
    it was "LOOK AT ME!"

    hahahaha

    since when does a warm feeling have anything to do with
    this path? hahahaha

    no, it's fine that people felt a homey vibe, but that ain't
    the goal, and like you say, she was pulling it to herself
    and then teaching her own methods, books, that

    contradict robert and nisargadatta.

    don't be hard on yourself about being aloof in all this.

    that seems to be a trait in the lineage...

    it works itself out however. i'm grateful she's gone,
    because she was sucking the juice to herself and

    like you say actually slowing people's growth.

    au revoir Mamaji! hehehe

    --John

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  2. thank you for the attachment.
    it makes a lot of sense and connects a few
    pieces for me.

    jo-ann was pulling the attention to herself.
    she only used your site as a platform to
    play teacher.

    her skill in technical areas allowed her
    power in spiritual areas of influence that
    she did not deserve.

    -John

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  3. Dear Edji,

    Thank you for setting the record straight. Jo-Ann was excellent in building the tools to support your online Satsangs. But yes, she was very controlling and difficult to work with. She had tremendous energy and intellect to make things manifest quickly at the expense of cultivating a loving and lasting relationship with the people involved in supporting your online Satsang. Many of us who wanted to be a part of the effort to support your online Satsang were turned off and left with a bad taste.

    However, I am prone to believe a lot of her controlling tendencies were unconscious and that in fact she did care and loved you and the Sangha, and worked tirelessly to make your teachings known to the world. I will miss her even though I was not much in touch as I had left the Sangha because of the negativity directed at me. There is something in her spirit that has always touched me. Alan on the other hand made me feel sick to my stomach - the rage and hatred he had for me was too much for me to grasp or tolerate.

    Janet B.

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  4. Dear Ed,

    Thanks for "cluing me in" about the Chinns. As I mentioned in my earlier note, I had no idea about what was going on in the Sangha. After I thanked Jo-Ann for her audio-video help, she replied by referring me to Dziuban's book. I read it out of curiosity. It is awful beyond belief. What a rant! Interminable. Vacuous. Painful like nails on a chalkboard.

    I loved your satsangs and will miss them. But I follow your blog with great interest and enjoyment. It would be lovely to see you sometime on Skype. Being, shall we say, technologically challenged, I haven't figured that out yet.

    My shedding of concepts continues. Even "concept" is a concept. One is rendered mute. Simply abiding in presence. ---S.

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  5. Hi Edji

    There is so much to say and words feel so empty.

    Again i like you honesty, very clear, no emotional blame, just facts.

    I was with Osho till he died and he too was just lazy and let things unfold and then realized how he got tricked by power hungry students. He tried to reverse the situation but it was nearly too late and a few years later he died without totally clarifying how it got into the mess in the first place.. Yes, history does repeat itself , because unless the mind is freed of its identifications it will react in predictable ways.

    Osho as well consciously "pissed off" many people in order to find students who stayed with him no matter what the flavour of the moment was. What seems such a big deal when you close to a teacher , hardly raises a ripple when you a distance away.

    Edji, I am forever grateful for your teachings and your way of guiding me through this labyrinth of concepts . Please keep on doing what you doing, give satsangs and keep on sharing on your blogs. I know a little bit of how hard that can be sometimes, but believe me your sharing are the most important things in my life and when/if a ashram will be created, please count me in. THere was talk of a longer retreat at one stage, again count me in.

    Shit happens, as they say here in XXXX, but that does not mean the teaching should stop. I mean what else is there???

    In deep gratitude ---

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  6. I must admit, I am shocked that Jo-Ann would so blatantly recommend a book to members of the Sangha that she new you would not approve of.

    Joan

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  7. Edji,
    This whole episode reinforces my tendency to stay away from sanghas and the high school bullshit that always seems to come with them. I saw similar crap at Zen centers and as a result focused completely on my own study with the teacher without saying so much as boo to anyone else. The hermit traditions have a lot of appeal for me.
    So the question becomes how can one work with a teacher one on one without dealing with all the other clowns that always seem to surround them?

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  8. Still here in the back of the room since 2009 Edji. Not going away anytime soon and I sure as hell hope you don't. I could only attend 1 satsang but looked forward to each and every recorded one like a kid at Christmas, wondering what jewel of a gift would be unwrapped next.

    I also echo the comment above about not being hard on yourself. You advised me once to be gentle on myself - and that is good advice for anybody - including the giver of it!

    "I failed to present the teachings better, and I failed to warn people more about the dangers of reading too many books, especially neo advaita books." No disrespect Edji, but I can't disagree more with that!

    Love,
    Tony

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  9. Ohhh... the drama! Edji- you need to keep recording Satsang. Consciousness will find a way.

    You are a rare gem among spiritual teachers! You could be just like this Dzuiban (whom I watched online- pure California Advaita), were it not for the grace of the guru. I think Jesus said- "Let one of you who has ears, listen, and understand". There are those who will never understand the difference between what you and Nisargadatta talk about and what this parrot is squalking.

    What it really boils down to is exactly as you said... attachment to concepts. Highly "intricate" and lofty concepts... concepts that make you feel good for a while for having understood intellectually, but concepts nonetheless. I have learned even in my own sangha here in Michigan it is a rare one who can even WATCH their thoughts and see that they are not them! It boggles the mind, truly. People have been sucking at the teat of thought their whole lives for that "feeling good", and when it comes to "spirituality" it is the same pattern repeated over and over.

    It's a shame about Joann. She was unable to "get it" even in the presence of Nisargadatta and Robert, manifested through you. An elder member of my sangha, and the only one there who truly understands anything besides my teacher, calls this type a "Dharma Queen". :)

    I love you with all my heart, Edji. Please continue your work on us!

    At Your Feet,

    Seth

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  10. Dear Ed Ji,

    I am indeed shocked and displeased , looking at the extent our human tendencies can make us stoop pathetically-jealousy? control? YUCK!!.
    Well, I was really worried for you , when you expressed this as your inability to take charge and be in control of things. No way have you failed us ever Ed Ji, how can you ever fail us? when you yourself say you love us just like you do yourself, you see no difference between yourself and us. Your blessngs are always there, your guidance is always there. I am sad people make a mockery of some such pure blessings. No Ed Ji, you have never failed me and never ever will. I do not want to judge anyone. I just know that as for me, you are doing the best you can .

    I just know one thing, that there are no concepts and that the only task the guru does is to 'beat out' these concepts. And yes sometimes, the beating out wont be easy. Yet I will keep the faith. Plus I always follow what my English teacher tells, "We can never even judge the masters", and I feel this is true. I dont know what are these dark energies, i dont know anything. I just know that you love us and I feel protected in your guidance . I dont want to "shop" for spiritual clothes, like you had once mentioned or warned in a facebook post. In fact I was really missing the online satsangs. When I had joint the online satsang, I had configuration problems and then the satsangs stopped. Online satsangs? Surely , till I pitch up my savings and able to make it to LA, it would be a favour to have them.

    I have my faults Ed Ji, but I am patient and willing to see through them . Like you had once told me, "The road to freedom is not easy" . But I have no worries when I have the love of my masters- You , Rajiv ji and God's grace. Help us all see through.

    Love
    Saylee

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  11. Edi Baba
    This is goofy stuff. I am chuckling. It happens over and over again. Ma Sheela comes to mind, she was playing same games-ditto! Nothing new here. And you and Osho have acted exactly the same way-lazy and let it play out the way it wants...

    All sorts gather around a guru-some pop, some drop and some plan a coup. How else would it be!

    Never been involved with Osho commune, sannyasins etc etc... same here-only with you.

    Ruby

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  12. Joan,

    To me the biggest shocker is that Jo-Ann and Alan would tell you not to get too close to Ed. That is incomprehensible to me. I am glad you followed your heart.

    Janet B.

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  13. I don't really know what to say. I would love online satsang to continue. I have no interest in other teachers and I do not live in the states. Noboby has failed anyone and I dont want to judge anyone.
    Love
    Mark.

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  14. I've been missing the online Satsangs as well, Edji, and will continue to attend if they start up again, for what it's worth. Thank you for loving us and caring so deeply about our progress. I'll be here till the end!

    rich

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  15. Ed:

    When you and I met about two years ago this time(which was when you invited me over to your house) and we then had dinner at a local Subway, I must say I was so very encouraged by that, all the moreso because of the "concept" ridden baggage I was carrying with me. And I appreciated that in a subsequent email after expressing what unsettling anxiety I had about "over meditating"(and then wanting to just abandon it all), you remarked that I was making some real progress, I just knew intuitively I had to stay and listen to your inspirational words of wisdom via the online Satsangs, so it's reassuring to know you still have faithful followers who'd never leave you no matter what.

    Gratefully,

    Mark

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  16. About 3 years ago I opened a youtube page where swami Nithyananda was speaking about meditation, and then i experienced unusual (for me) thing:
    a kinda very silent small voice inside told "this person is not real, he will be exposed" and after 2 years he was caught having sex with woman, while he himself has strictly prohibited his students to do so, millions were in rage. When I first attended your satsang, the same small little silent voice (kinda knowing, but it has its own quality) told same thing about JoAnn. "This is not real person, she is not honest". But I thought to myself, this is my own projections from deep past, i must not listen. But whatever that silent voice told me everything became so.

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  17. To the Anonymous speaking about Nithyananda. Please do not put your concepts and morality expectations on enlightened beings. I am not a devotee or disciple of Swami Nithyananda.

    However, I would like to highlight these points. You may take it or dump it. First of all you don't know about the reality of the video tape. Even if (big if) that were a true incidence, What you mean by the word morality or your definition about how things should be is your own projection on how an enlightened being should behave. Whatever an action, comes out through the body-mind of an enlightened person is nature's (prakruti's) flow. The society identifies or recognizes the action flowing through the body as the real person who has gone beyond that. Those actions will always be righteous. Not righteous as our mind define; not based on social conditioning. It is innocence manifesting. Let millions be in rage or millions be his disciples; what difference does that make to him. Didn't people crucify Christ; didn't people try to kill Buddha; didn't people try to harm Ramana Maharshi; didn't Sri Krishna alleged to be flirtatious; don't you think Sri Rama did a mistake by committing suicide in Sarayoo river- as per the society's definitions.

    I don't know about Jo-Ann. I never had been anywhere near to Swami Nithyananda physically or contacted him. God's grace allows me to feel about him. I am fed up of hearing these judgments against the enlightened beings. Please do not judge about what you don't know. There is only one judge for anybody (regardless of whether person is bound to the body consciousness or is transcended); and that is always within the perceived body. So judge not lest ye be judged.

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  18. Thanks for the update.

    Odd, I never responded well to that person.

    It appears to me there will always be manic, spiritually ambitious folks. This does not to me imply they are bad. We all know there is a time when spirit feels strong and real, our relationship and guidance strong, our understanding lucid: it is the emotional underpinnings of the spiritually tumultuous teenage years. There is no crime in this, but plenty of chaos, intensity, misdirection, and growing blinding pride.

    Many of us have all had time to go crazy, think we got it, think we are spiritual or important--at the hub of revolution, ready to share our truth our wisdom. To conflate psychic energies or healing or teaching with spiritual progress, or even awakening. It feels so enticing. It feels so driving, urgent. It is hard to later learn, this relationship signifies spiritual maturity is not occurring.

    Yet, for many of us if we are lucky enough to let go of this to, if we remain open to refusing any label--as teacher, guru, healer, energy wielder as Bernadette Roberts so clearly stated then their is a chance for true relationship, true presence, true unfolding--always alive, always vibrant and unknowing. And it is as you always say:

    No concept to stand on, no other to prop you up. No need to explain. No space is more sacred. In general the urgency leaves, the ambition dissipates, the collected knowing crumbles away---always naked, always simple, always free. This was the path, in part, for me.

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  19. anon said, "I am fed up of hearing these judgments against the enlightened beings. Please do not judge about what you don't know."

    What I am fed up with is your judgement that this dog is an "enlightened being". How the hell would you know?

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  20. Anonymous, this stuff is so funny. 'She is not a real person'. LOL

    And do you know why Nithyananda's students were enraged? Not because he was having sex with women, but because they were angry at being suckered into believing his shit and they missed out on years of fun. They weren't angry because he was having sex. They were angry because they weren't.

    Boy, I needed a good laugh. Thanks!

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  21. concerning edji s post: this explains a lot!

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  22. Thanks Edji for the update… I could not help and think : here it is again !
    I have been part of many groups and the Osho commune… It seems there is no other way…
    I also thought of Nisargadatta who always refused an Ashram and big group around him… As mentioned in the DVD Tat Twam Asi he answered when asked by Dr Vanaja about it :
    "At the most what will you do ?
    You'll make a golden statue, but this will not give you eternal contentment !"
    Love !

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  23. Dearest Ed ~ so what we are seeing is that when the cat is away, the mice will play. It's nothing personal... just the nature of cats and mice... all Love ~

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  24. All this is like a dust theater ... how amusing.

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  25. And only Love remains.
    -Jason

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  26. Stuff like that reminds of a story:
    Once Satan and his demon sidekick were walking down the street, closely watching a man 20 yards ahead who was on the verge of realizing the Supreme Truth. The demon grew worried, and began to nudge Satan, but Satan looked quite calm. Sure enough, the man did, in fact, soon realize the deepest spiritual Truth. Yet Satan still did nothing about it. With this, the demon nudged Satan harder and, getting no response, finally blurted out, “Satan! Don’t you see? That man has realized the Truth! And yet you are doing nothing to stop him!” With that, Satan cunningly smiled and announced, “Yes, he has realized the Truth. And now I am going to help him organize the Truth!”

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  27. Ed,
    You are the one who was allowing them to do that. You knew most of the stuff they were doing! Even at the end, they are the ones who decided to leave on their own, you did not ask them to leave!

    Had they decided to stay with you for other few months or even years, they could do so!

    So, what this whole fuss is all about!

    They want to establish another sangha with another teacher! So what!!

    You lost so many dedicated students in this whole thing!

    Please do not let this thing happen again!

    Please learn something from this whole thing!

    I am certainly not taking anyone's side! I am simply saying, please don't let this things happen again!

    Peace!

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  28. I understand Ricky's sadness. I as well trusted them both as friends. To think they had my best interest at heart and to see it was their own they were attending to...

    No wonder I never felt 'heard' whenever I spent time with them. I always felt 'taught' as they had their own agenda that they wanted me to fit into. I was 'broken' to them and they wanted to 'fix' me.

    They would even call into question your input in my life. It's a miracle I made it through without leaving.

    For me, its been a good lesson in listening to my heart rather than trying to think the best of everyone.

    I'd have to admit, I am somewhat disappointed in John as well. Not in what he is doing, but in the deceptiveness and secrecy behind it all.

    Can you imagine, a year down the road, and some student wants to know how he got his start as a spiritual teacher? What lies he will have to tell...

    I can hear it now..."I was a troll, living under a bridge for three years, by the light of one lonely lamp...

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  29. Cathy says it best: "so what we are seeing is that when the cat is away, the mice will play. It's nothing personal... just the nature of cats and mice..."

    IMHO, people will be drawn to wherever they need to be for their growth, or slowing of their growth, whatever the case may be. It doesn’t really have anything to do with you, Ed. Why not just let the chips fall where they may? I confess I find the drama somewhat interesting and it helps clarify certain things, but how helpful is it? Exposing, explaining, defending seems to just end up opening the door to lots of judgment and misperception, human nonsense. Who knows what’s really going on? This kind of behavior is very common in spiritual circles and organizations.

    "What is that to thee? follow thou me" is the call of Absolute love to dispense with the petty nonsense and rivalries of the world and follow the call home to the heart of truth… in silence.

    Much love,
    Janet C

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  30. “Satan! Don’t you see? That man has realized the Truth! And yet you are doing nothing to stop him!” With that, Satan cunningly smiled and announced, “Yes, he has realized the Truth. And now I am going to help him organize the Truth!”

    L O L :DDDDDDDD

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  31. Leave it behind and be free.

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  32. john g. said:
    "Neem Karoli Baba , who was a disciple, as was Muktananda, of the Great Nityananda"

    this is incorrect. neem karoli baba was not a disciple of nityananda like
    muktananda was.


    anyway, whether this john guy is awakened or not doesn't really matter.
    if he and the chinns were/are trying to recruit people from your sangha
    or use your mailing list, it's sneaky and backstabbing.

    jo-ann is really coming out of all this looking manipulative and
    power hungry.

    it's always the ones closest to you, isn't it? hahaha

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  33. anonymous said:
    'leave it behind and be free'

    it's not so easy unfortunately. this is a cleansing period, a transition. it's painful. later will be growth again.

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  34. You'll often see true esoteric groups like this be externally 'destroyed' or transformed, either by the Guru or God (is there a difference?)

    This is the second or third incarnation of Edji's work and it will go for a time and then again, change.

    It's too pure of a teaching/teacher to stay in one form externally for long. It can't sustain stagnation, comfort. It's radical and alive. It operates by it's own laws.

    It sheds it's skin.

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  35. Ed know I am totally faithful to you.

    But I wanted to share my thoughts.

    SHIT HAPPENS and HAS HAPPENED HERE, and ALWAYS HAPPENS!!

    I don't relate to people saying "I had a funny feeling about Jo-Ann" .
    Well I can in a sense of initially being jealous of her running the show.

    Having known her personally, I can say to me, she was nothing but short of amazing.
    The support she has given me has been wonderful. And very much Alan to.
    Perhaps we had similar personalities or something. Who knows

    I was not aware about the seperate satsang agenda or John being the face of it.
    Call me Naive but I find her to be a very beautiful person.


    I am not on the Chins side.
    I am on no ones side.
    Except mine, and I feel it right by me to say so.

    I guess they came and they went like water under the bridge.
    We all know change always happens. And this change is awesome.
    New growth to evolve.

    Lets be realistic though.

    We are all humans here.
    I want Edji to my selve at times
    I, at times want to put out the others flame to keep mine burning brighter.
    I get jealoous
    I get protective, and even possesive over our teacher.

    Anyway just wanted to say.
    I am happy that this is happened
    Change is cool
    NO hard feelings
    And I wish Jo-Ann and Alan the best with this journey
    And a thank you for what you have done for me.
    I really hope it wasn't at the expense of others

    Chris and Janet. I am sorry that you were exiled at the time.

    P.S to first commenter John

    I'm not sure if what you said was a joke or not. But it was a technical error. A new broadcasting program was used and Ed was broadcaster instead of Jo-Ann. When Ed logged out. It automatically went to Jo-Anns screen.

    I BELIEVE ALL IS WELL
    ...until it is not any way :)





    Ricky

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  36. Ricky, I appreciate you being true to yourself and not finding the need to take sides.

    It's a shame when we are put in positions in which it appears that this is what we are forced to do.

    So be it.

    I wish nothing but the best to all who are involved. I hope we have all learned something no matter how insignificant it may be.

    Joan

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  37. Other than occasional references made by Edji to Jo Ann and Allan, I never met them and had this now apparently idealistic notion that everything was perfect under the sun. But if they came with an agenda(even if not initially so but gradually over time), then it was only a matter of time when they would have felt an opportunistic need to thrust that agenda onto anyone in the Satsang they would think was open to it regardless of how disruptive that would be. As someone commented before, this isn't that uncommon in Satsangs simply because ego has a habit of rearing itself when its survival is at stake.

    Maybe some folks just gotta get those egos thoroughly "cooked" enough.

    Mark

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  38. "And do you know why Nithyananda's students were enraged?"


    No, and don't want to know. It is not my business. Same with Jo Ann and others. I was just relating some experience called "silent voice within" to Ed, and people somehow tend to see and expand on judgment, morality and things that are not my point at all.

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  39. All I can say, is I trust Edji and love him deeply as a teacher. If the teacher recommends I not read a book, I won't read it. Not out of blind obedience, but because I trust him as guide. I trust Edji because he has demonstrated the way to freedom from conceptual thinking and I have noticed some changes within my own attitude and thinking processes over the course of time. It is the same as if I was following a guide through a jungle or mountainous area and the guide warns me not to go a certain way because I might get lost or eaten or step into quick sand. I would listen because the guide knows what is out there from experience.

    I recall reading a satsang from Robert Adams where he relates being at Ramana's ashram. He noticed some devotees who were all enthused at first and after 6 months were criticizing (secretely) how the senior members were running things and they even critized things about Ramana. After while they left the ashram.

    I learn a lot from others. Beautiful posts from other students about the progress they are making, like the student from Thailand. I learn from the mischief makers what not to do.I am reminded from the posts by self described hermit types of the importance of meditation. It seems as if, just listening to Edji, even when he says not to believe even him, and reflecting and spending at leas an hour meditating daily, it is all very helpful.

    If I do those things, I will probably be less likely to be a "trouble maker" and distract others from the task at hand.

    In gratitude and love,
    mike

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  40. Sometimes I wonder who is being cooked?

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  41. Hi Ed!

    I really hope Satsang continues, because I still haven't had the chance to attend one yet!

    I am grateful for your support on all of our paths.


    -Jessica

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