I wanted to clarify what my view is and responded as follows:
Rajiv, I think very
few believe ecstasies and orgasms are the end of seeking. It is merely a sign of approaching a deeper
level of one's self. In
Siddharameshwar’s rubric, it would be qualities of the Turiya state leaking
through the conscious mind and body.
Following that bliss leads to a deeper abiding in the I Am, Turiya, and
one day, that deepest level of self “arises” in “you,” revealing to the mind
and small you, your total glory and base as Turiya.
The
bliss/ecstasies/orgasms are merely a path to I Am, and love and ecstasies are
qualities of I Am.
Yet even that
experience requires a base, the principle that knows, of which we can say
nothing, but only be it. This is the
real awakening, knowledge of knowingness and the knower.
My position as a
teacher is a recognition that very few will ever get this knowledge as an
experience; it will just be a cognitive knowing, for rare is anyone who
penetrates all the dharmas.
I recognize further
that the vast majority who pursue spirituality and religion, do so to escape
their own suffering, emotional suffering of loss, loneliness, anger, fear,
insecurity, etc. Thus spirituality for
them is a form of escapism, like into CONCEPTS of “no separate self” for the Neo-Advaitins,
the EXPERIENCE of “emptiness” and the “void” for Buddhists, and various
mind-still meditations like Japa, watching the breath, etc., which is to take
one’s awareness away from one’s pain and suffering, to attend to something
else.
My point of view is
that Siddharameshwar and Ramana make a mistake by just focusing on Turiya and
Turiyatta, the “highest” state, and that which lies beyond states. The physical and emotional realms, the mind,
the blisses, and the causal body of unconsciousness are all part of the
incarnated Self that makes up you and me.
Everything is Self,
not just Turiya, and needs to be accepted deeply and even celebrated, rather
than just an endless seeking of Turiya and Turiyatta.
So, the “Path” I
advocate is that you have to start where you are and go in both directions from
there. If you are suffering from
depression, anxiety attacks, out of control emotions, one needs to procede
differently than someone who has dwelled in emptiness and pure beingness for a
long time, and who feels sort of dry and emoty of emotional juice or love.
The former requires
some sort of psychotherapy depending on personality style, and possibly
medication. Meditation might focus on
just observing the body and emotions, splitting off part of yourself as a
personal, ego-level witness. While I
encourage the person lost in emptiness to look for the I-Am sense in that
emptiness, to abide there, to love the I Am.
That wil awaken the emotional energy allowing one to go deeper. Hopefully one encounters then an external
trigger, a guru, a lover, one’s own personal Beloved that accelerates the
building of love and blissful energies that further drive ones opening.
Therefore, there is
no one path for all. One’s path depends on where one starts and what is the
area of highest personal distress. Is it
loneliness or dryness, or is it out of control raging emotions? Or is it a search for the ultimate, the
unchanging, the absolute? Is there a
burning personal question or quest, such as a search for God or Truth. These
will later be seen as imaginary and illusory, but they can drive one’s efforts
for a long, long time.
So, I like to picture
“the path” not as a linear and sequential process such as outlined by
Siddharameshwar where everyone is on the same path, but more like the metaphor
where you are a billionaire who has just purchased a hundred or a thousand room
spiritual mansion, and each room is a miracle of inner and out riches, like a
museum containing precious objects for oe to touch, hold, sense and love. It really does not matter where you begin,
for you have to begin where you are.
And, this is your
mansion; no one has owned it before you.
Therefore all maps by all other house owners are useless to explore your
new house. It is up to you to explore
this mansion, maybe with a teacher who holds your hand an walks with you. Not that this teacher has explored this house
before, but he has explored many others, and though he does not know what lies
behind the next door in your house, he has seen similar rooms and contents
before during his own explorations, and if you are lucky, you get to take your
teacher into an entirely new room neither of you have seen before and both can
be equally amazed by the contents.
I must confess, I think it's good that there are those in spirituality who have the guts to bring into question, whether it be via criticism or whatever means necessary, any and all teachers and teachings. It is so easy for an aspirant to get 'stuck' in someone's else's concepts about their awakening. A cold splash of water in our faces from time to time can wake us up from our conceptualized spiritual naps. Everything in this dream is a target for criticism and those who hold their dream treasures the tightest will have the sorest fists.
ReplyDeleteYou should see the nail marks in my hands...:)
I don't care if it's Ramana, Siddharameshwar, Nisargadatta, Robert, Ed, whomever. Ultimately anything that can be communicated with words is at best a theory, and theories are always incomplete. If you can't allow for the possibility that what is being stated is not the complete truth, then you're no better than a garden variety Jesus Freak.
ReplyDelete"then you're no better than a garden variety Jesus Freak."
DeleteWhat a load of crap.
Really gave the what for to some great sages, yeh? Then even the Jesus freaks got a poke in the face. The rest of what you wrote sounds like the same kind of theorizing you criticize with such disdain.
All of which makes you come off like a puffed-up, garden variety snob.
Lila u need to understand that what you call as "concept free" is also another concept. As long as Lila exists, there will never be truly a concept free understanding for the faculty you use is the same mind just that the words have changed -- from that of Ramana to Edji or some other teacher. You or Waldo may want to deny that and say it is your understanding but the fact is its still someone words. It always is. That is why words can never bring freedom because the one understanding them is still Lila Sterling or Waldo-- the primary concept. Do you see that? The question now remains is how does one achieve that because to realize that one must necessarily be completely absent. The answer is one needs to shift attention from all words spoken (no judging, criticism or analyzing) and bring attention to the ONE trying to understand these words-- the Subject. When that happens there is acceptance of everything around for the focus now has shifted only to the point of origin-- the subject. Now to to go even beyond that point where the subject "I" too is missing requires no other qualification except unconditional surrender and faith in ones Guru who then redirects that to ones inner Guru where all illusion finally disappears. If surrender is absent one may be deluded that he is free but he is still trapped within his own ego/mind and all he is seeing is just another mental understanding projected on it. LOVE, Rajiv Kapur
ReplyDeleteYes. Rajiv amazing clarity. It is exactly as you say.
DeleteBen
Rajiv, thanks for what you shared above, except no where did I use the terminology 'concept free.'
DeleteI personally don't have an a problem with concepts, they certainly can be useful to get one to a certain point, and even when they are dropped they are still useful to guide others just as you have done above.
I intuitively feel what you say is right, Edji. Thanks for saying it. I recognize the truth from my own experience; it also makes me feel better that I recognized I was miserable earlier in my life and actively sought help, rather than to suppress or try to "fit in" with consensus reality until I grow old and die. It took me so much work to learn to love myself and take care of others, and to accept love from another, that I never felt fully comfortable with the Advaita "stick it to 'em" line that is sometimes espoused about people in one's life. (As in, "The world isn't real and those who don't turn within are deluded, so just leave them to their own devices and become non-functional.")It's harder to tolerate the perceived ignorance and selfishness of those you love and serve, but far more rewarding to remain centered in the Self when dealing with them, which opens possibilities for experiencing "new rooms" in both your own and their spiritual mansions as your preconceptions and rigidity are challenged, like you said. Keep on goin', Edji. Keep on truckin'.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Matthew
Edji, as I keep insisting, your presentation of the seeming nature in movement of the Self is more and more clear and powerful. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteRajiv and Mathew: Thank you. Powerful assessments. And true.
Fellow friends: I find metaphors helpful:
If I use a compass and plan a walk for a thousand miles to my projected destination and I plan only two degrees off my course, I am still, in the end, I am still way off. I feel most would feel I was competent with a compass, that I tried, stuck with it, and walked those thousand miles. I have gained an understanding, have much to share but I remain way off. And my destination, the temperate rain forests of the NW, is not the sand dunes or Oregon where I would have likely ended up. Thought is never right, never accurate and never you.
No movement and no resulting identity no matter how empty, no matter how intense or expansive touches the Self. Nothing defines it, contains it. Self stands apart from Satchitananda, all being and non-being: yet in devotion notices reflections of the Self in all. this is liberated understanding, as apprehension; not of experience, not of thought, not of process, not of any sensation. bodies don't wake up and thoughts never get it right.
Take care,
Ben