Self-Knowledge and Self-Realization

OPEN DISCOURSE ON THE EXPERIENCE OF SELF, THE DIVINE, AND REQUESTING OTHERS TO SHARE THEIR EXPERIENCES, AND WHETHER THEIR EXPERIENCES HAVE SETTLEDAND BECOME STABLE.

SPECIFICALLY, I AM ADDRESSING FRANCIS BENNET, ALLAN MORELOCK, SW. CHETANANANDA, SW. SHANKARANANDA, AND THE BEVY OF NEO-ADVAITA TEACHERS TO COMMENT ON.

ED MUZIKA:

Francis-Allan-Swamijis, Neos....

For me there is a definite sense of a separate self in the sense that 'I' have a location different from all others, and in this separation I am allowed to love or hate them more because of duality.

I love them because they share sentience/Self/God with me, and can hate them because their actions harm other sentient beings, at least in my eyes.

When I meet another I do not feel as if I am seeing, feeling, hearing, tasting out of their sense organs, but I do feel from my heart that same sentience that I feel in me, I feel and worship in them.

Also, I feel my own separate personality with its own wants, needs, hangups, fears, desires, and certainly own them as me in this present incarnation.

As to the divine, 'I' experience it within my location as a body, centered throughout my body, and perceived as white light, a tingling flowing energy often shading into full bliss, and experienced as the essence and power of life within me underlying my separated sentience.

I can only verbalize it as the feeling of a divine fire of life within me; my true heart; my true being; yet joined completely with a physical and separate manifestation.

You see, this is how I describe my experiences and the inference I draw from it.

But what I teach is the method to find that diving within and let others interpret their experience of it in the way most appropriate for them.

It is this diversity of interpretation and expression that allows more and more people to access the direct experience of the divine, whether we call it Christ, God, Atman, Turiya.

Francis Bennett:

True awakening is actually nothing "special" at all. It is not the presence of some strange and novel thing that you were somehow lacking before and have now "acquired".

It is actually the absence of something. It is the absence of a strange and novel thing that you mistakenly thought you had and that you actually didn't really ever have or ever need in the first place......a separate sense of self!

True awakening is the absence of the mistaken notion of a separate self. It is what is left after that mistaken notion falls away or is seen through.

Ed Muzika:

Francis-Allan. For me there is a definite sense of a separate self in the sense that 'I' have a location different from all others, and in this separation I am allowed to love or hate them more because of duality.

I love them because they share sentience/Self/God with me, and can hate them because their actions harm other sentient beings, at least in my eyes.

When I meet another I do not feel as if I am seeing, feeling, hearing, tasting out of their sense organs, but I do feel from my heart that same sentience that I feel in me, I feel and worship in them.

Also, I feel my own separate personality with its own wants, needs, hangups, fears, desires, and certainly own them as me in this present incarnation.

As to the divine, 'I' experience it within my location as a body, centered throughout my body, and perceived as white light, a tingling flowing energy often shading into full bliss, and experienced as the essence and power of life within me underlying my separated sentience.

I can only verbalize it as the feeling of a divine fire of life within me; my true heart; my true being; yet joined completely with a physical and separate manifestation.

You see, this is how I describe my experiences and the inference I draw from it.

But what I teach is the method to find that diving within and let others interpret their experience of it in the way most appropriate for them/

It is this diversity of interpretation and expression that allows more and more people to access the direct experience of the divine, whether we call it Christ, God, Atman, Turiya.

Allan Morelock 

     Thank you both Francis and Ed. Non-separation is our experience and then there is the rub of how different we are. That tension is I think a very important exploration for us. Ed you talked about wanting teachers to come together more. I think this tension is going to show up big time, and will demand more of us than we can anticipate. When I think of either of you two [as well as many others], I feel such deep love and appreciation. I feel great joy to have others with whom I can openly share the great unspeakable. And then this strange tension of otherness that creeps in unexpectedly, uninvited.

I believe it is there amongst all teachers, maybe not all. And how we address it is very important as I see it. When Ramana was asked about his neighboring teacher Sri Aurobindo, Ramana dismissed him rather crudely. The history of spiritual teachers in conflict is something we as awakening teachers now will most likely be facing as we go forward. I am not saying that we three are in conflict here.

I think there is personal shadow we all need to continue to address [speaking for myself for sure] and there is collective shadow we are called to explore. Facing his shadow was not an option for Ramana. And today, many people would be appalled at my mentioning such a thing.

As more and more people awaken, deeper layers of shadow are most likely to surface. I have never been to Sands or a comparable gathering, so tell me you did not see this happening just below the surface of the enlightened ones; I will be happy to revise my thoughts.

In the mean time, I say we are called to an ongoing deepening in both oneness and difference. That is in my opinion a greater love than relying on our oneness to maintain harmony. Like a couple who meet and fall in love, that initial love is not what sustains them long term; a greater love needs to mature into the mix for long term sustainability. One reason I say it here, is that I believe in your capacity for this Francis. I trust your capacity to set aside, at least provisionally, your understanding enough to deeply take in an others view even when it feels conflicting.

Ed Muzika:

Alan, I feel the fear in most teachers of being open with each other, or publicly open about their own sense of individuality and personality quirks.  In a sense, most as still posers in many ways, and don’t speak of disagreements, paranoias, stress, anger, only of love and non-separation.

Francis Bennett:

I would say there is no separate self but there is still an INDIVIDUAL, that we can be an individual distinct form other individuals and still not be SEPARATE. Like the fingers of a hand. They are individual fingers but are not completely separate from one another but are always joined on one level.........Is this kind of what you are saying here? But there is no SEPARATE self in the sense of an entity that is somehow cut off or totally separate from other selfs.

Ed Muzika:

Oh, certainly I do not feel a disconnect with others, but my primary focus is no longer on the unitary experience of all-permeating Emptiness, or all-permeating fullness. Rather, I am more and more aware of my embodied-ness as sentience and as a center of existence.

     I am more and more aware of my deceasing physical powers, arthritic pain, memory problems, etc, that really make me aware of my physical existence, and behaviors in relating to others.

     However, there are also days, especially before all the stress, physical and mental of moving. when I could not leave my easy chair because I felt such incredible peace, bliss, grace, and the presence of Self and God as me.

     Yet, increasingly I feel I am both: spirit, God, Self and embodied, aging physical/mental being.

      Francis, your metaphor of non-separation of like finger on one hand, for me, does not fit my experience. For me, others are identical to me having a body, mind, awareness, the Life Force, and Self, but certainly are distinct. I feel their soul as pure loving acceptance, and I suppose as my own Self, but I don't feel all thinngs are God or Shakti.

     I feel the Godness or divinity within all sentient beings from insects, even plants, fish, birds, mammals and mankind, but not rocks, hills, water, etc..

All sentient beings I worship as God, as Self, as me; worship and protect.

May I suggest that all of us watch a video entitled The Three Gurus moderated by Andrew Cohen.  We get a look at the inner life of well-known spiritual teachers as teachers.  Br. Charles is a bit nuts, but Sw. Chetanananda is right on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZrj283rUvo