You cannot find the Self unless you believe in it.

          I always believed that the Self existed.  Something told me it was true, and I looked for years, sometimes just gazing at the inner emptiness, sometimes looking for the origin of the I-thought.  Even after discovering there was no objective Self within in 1995, and that who I was lay even beyond Consciousness, inside I still believed in Self. And one day She found me; she came to me and showed me her divine form.

The mind and Consciousness are a deep and vast mystery. They do not give up their secrets to unbelievers who only see whatever is presented to the senses.

You must spend years looking inside, into the mind and deeper into the Void and even beyond. If you believe only beingness, or emptiness, or Nowness exists, you miss almost everything. It is like looking at the ripples on a lake and thinking that is all there is.

But the diver sees much, much more: shoals, fish, crabs, coral, shells and both beauty and death everywhere. The diver is not lazy, he has gone far beyond the naysayer at the shore who says there is nothing down there.

O yes there is.

Yet often the believers are taken to be naive fools. But they are the ones who believe in God both within and without. The intellectuals and complex people are caught in their standard beliefs which exclude the supernatural, the mysteries, and the kingdom of God.

Top of Form

Syndria Mecham Edji, your words pierce directly into my heart tonight. Thank you. I was feeling really out of balance, suddenly, a huge rush of fear. You just washed that fear out to sea. The Equinox energies are incredibly strong tonight, the Spring mysteries very fertile for me this year. Don't let me crawl back up onto the shore out of fear! My world is expanding into the depths at a really fast pace. Scaring me!

Ed Muzika Dive away, dive away, dive away more!

Syndria Mecham Oh, God,....

Irene Cohen Yes, being in the now, though pleasant (sometimes), always seemed quite superficial to me. _/l\_

Raffaella Martinelli Thank's Ed! Your words enter deeply into my heart!

Ed Muzika It is superficial. It is deliberately accepting the limits of the surface. When you dive deep, you become the totality of Consciousness, the essence of which is the Self of All. Most all of those who talk of nowness, unity, no separate self, etc., are suface watchers, who say, “Yup, that is all that there is, Nowness,” and go off leading the usual materialistic lives. But for many that is not enough.  The urge to go deeper and deeper drives them ever inwards.

Ed Muzika Love gave me the Self, but Deeya gave me the understanding that it is all about belief. In retrospect, I see that is true. I believed in the Self despite my own experiences to the contrary, and She rewarded me by appearing before me in the most profound and energetic manner possible.

Syndria Mecham Belief has gotten a bad rep lately in spiritual circles like Zen. But, as the old zen masters said, "Everything is created by Mind alone".

Belief is The Great Creator!

Sean McCutcheon Not *all* "intellectuals and complex people..." There is no shortage of examples of those who were highly advanced in both worlds: in the 20th century, Sri Aurobindo, Franklin Merrell-Wolff, Swami Sri Yukteswar, etc.

Shankara himself was an accomplished scholar and one of history's greatest philosophers.

Dawn Mellard Amen my friend!

Ed Muzika But none are Ramanas, Nisargadattas, or Roberts. Simple people of deep seeing. The intellect is a barrier for most. They rely on mind rather than surrender or a guru, or a text. Complicated people do not pass through the eye of a needle either, along with the rich because both hold onto the material too much or the “observable,” the “objective.”

Syndria Mecham And it's not easy becoming a Rock Head when I'm used to over thinking everything. More deep diving needed for me. It's harder to hold onto concepts when I am deep into the Mysteries. There I can let belief and wonderment guide me. Then, I feel truly ALIVE!

Sean McCutcheon I agree that "[t]he intellect is a barrier for most." Even many prominent jnana yogis have taught that (including 2 of the 3 that I mentioned) and have said that bhakti is more suited to most natures. And I'm certainly not trying to detract from your overall message, though personally I would find it more compelling if it were less sectarian. "Most" is not "all" and some have Realized the Self through the jnana path, as you know. I will not respect them any less. Apologies if my comment was a distraction.

Syndria Mecham Jnana/Bhakti just seem like two sides of the same coin. But I don't think Jnanis who are effective on that path, are attached to thinking, making it into a false god, anymore than Bhaktis can do that effectively with emotion. In both cases it seems like a balance of skillfull means.

Charly Obermayr In the end, you must drop the mind, so or so..at least they say so.

Charly Obermayr You know, I just don't think about such questions much anymore

Syndria Mecham Jnanis contemplate these things. Bhaktis.....not so much.

Charly Obermayr Ok, I'm a bhakti

Syndria Mecham Bhaktis choose to live in the experience rather than witness it. Both are valid. but I prefer door #1. LIVE IT DAMN IT!!!

Paul Randolph Tuthill Occasionally the self shows up unannounced on ask for an unexpected. Do not pretend to predict the form that love will take. That work best left to complete fools

Pierre Thériault beautiful, thanks, Edji 

Gurudatta Dattatreya "You must spend years looking inside."

That is a trap, if it is not Here and Now then it is not it. If you spend years polishing a tile it will not turn into a mirror.

As for all the hype behind Ramana, Nisargadatta and Robert...not every Enlightened Being expresses themselves in the same manner although there may be slight variances that are consistent. Some enlightened beings do not even speak, therefore you will most likely never encounter them unless you specifically seek them out.

There are only 3 possibilities in knowing if someone is enlightened.

1. Internal Direct - You are enlightened, you see the enlightened being and you know from within.

2. Hearsay - Someone else tells you that a being is enlightened. This spikes curiosity, and you proceed an interaction with the enlightened being based upon interest with the incepted knowledge.

3. External Direct - You meet a being spontaneously without effort and they tell you face to face as they look into your eyes that they are enlightened either verbally or in silence and then you know from within.

Whether you accept or reject the above stated is all based upon your vibrations and openness. For those whom are Ready, they will See.

Houry Shaghoyan Awesome...thanks for sharing...

John Scinto beautifully said!!

Ed Muzika No Gurudatta, you are speaking about something entirely different from what I am speaking about. I speak only about the act and experience of Self-Realization, the experience of realizing the Self of All within one's subjective experience; the unity of the personal self, the I Am, and Atman, God.

I am not speaking of recognizing enlightenment in someone's eyes, or hearing about it and believing, such like Jesus is the son of God.

I am talking about a direct realization of the divine within that has always been there, unseen, generally through a process of love.

There have been ridiculous arguments here about "all" versus "some" or exceptions, etc., but these are people who look at realization from outside.

The Jnani path DOES NOT LEAD TO SELF-REALIZATION, although some Jnanis realize the Self either before or after the Jnan realization of identity with the witness, Parabrahman. This is a place entirely removed from Consciousness.

Only the Bhaki realizes the Self through Bhakti, love, although a Bhakti can become a Jnani, and go on to realize ParaBrahman as did Nisargdatta, who was first a Bhakti who realized the Self through devotion to his guru and worship of Bal-Krishna, his Self. He talks about his awakening in "Self-Knowledge and Self Realization." Later he became a Jnani and went beyond Self, but even in his later books he talks about the need to worship the I Am and abide there.

But this going beyond Self can be a trap of great peace, little more than a removal from the world. We need good people fully involved in the world in this day and age. And, Bhakti is far more fun!

Ed Muzika Gurudatta, I was not talking about how you recognize an enlightened being, but how you awaken to the Self. All else is mischief.  But this is your bag, inviting people to look into your eyes and see what happens.

Ed Muzika I am afraid you are still looking at the surface Gurudatta. There is a difference between looking at what is, Nowness, beingness, the world and me as perceived by the senses, and taking that as all that there is.

It certainly is not all that there is.

Deep, deep in your Consciousness, beyond the senses, beyond Samadhi, beyond emptiness, lie both the Self and the Witness, Parabrahman.

If you do not know this, you stay on the surface with the neo-Advaitins, who cannot find a Self because they worship the ripples of Consciousness, not the depths found in tracing the I-Am back to its source in the Atman, Turiya.

Gurudatta Dattatreya Ed Muzika, When you as a teacher tell someone that it takes years to realize that they are the Self, that is a corruption on your part. Thus you have them create a dependency upon you so that they can realize as you express that you have.

It does not take years and you do not have to believe in it.

Bringing for right attention is paramount and the bhakti path is one way but not the only way. Jnani path CAN lead to self realization as well as doing nothing and sitting on your ass spontaneously combusting into self realization.

In a realm of infinite possibilities you are foolish to declare that certain paths cannot lead to self realization.

What you call Love is just another name for the nameless, you use words and put them together based upon your experiences and cultural conditionings.

I can see now how those around you are confused and why they communicate with you the way you do.

How can one go beyond Self, that is just straight Bullshit. If you are beyond Self then you would never exist and there would be no one there to know one is beyond Self. Nice Try!

Ed Muzika How do I create a dependency on me? I tell people of a Self within, and of a place beyond Self altogether that my teacher Robert told me about and which I realized with him. Much later I realized my Self through Love, after which I left the Jnan teachings behind out of wonderment, bliss and love.

That Self was not on the surface, but buried deep within. My love for another allowed the Self a path so that it arose within me, and showed itself to me, just as Krishna showed his true nature to Arjuna.

I just tell my message of Self, the glad tidings of Self, and if they want, to go beyond Self to the Absolute, where I urge them not to go.

If you claim insight arising from Nisargadatta's lineage, you need to understand Siddharameshwar's teachings, otherwise you are just another neo-Advaitin floating in Is-ness and Now-ness.

Ed Muzika I only tell of my experiences and my interpretation of those experiences. I tell people of the energies that flow through me and both Deeya and I tell them how to experience them and bliss in themselves.

Mostly in Satsang everyone there feels the bliss, meaning they are becoming aware of their energetic body that lies deeper than the gross body and perception of the world.

Later, dwelling in this "Subtle Body" of energies and emotions and thoughts, they go deeper into nothingness, thence into Turiya, Satchitananda, and beyond.

Yes, Self-realization can arise spontaneously in some, like Ramana and my teacher, Robert Adams, but for most it takes years. I never hear of you talking about the Self, therefore, you likely never have experienced it for yourself. I may be wrong, but if you have, speak of it.

Gurudatta Dattatreya Edji, I claim no lineage it is all for mythological expressions. I make no claims about anything, I never had a guru as you had Robert. I never followed anyone or anything. I listened to what was within me and that was enough.

All you can ever do is guide someone within so that they can discover their True Nature.

When you give seekers a timeline you create an obstruction within them of expectation and false assumptions. It may be advantageous to tell them of your own experience but not false assumptions about the potential for theirs. They may experience the Self faster and quicker than you did!

There is only Self and when you use words to describe multiples Selves and no Selves it does not make it Simple.

You urge them not to go to the Absolute? What?!?

What do you consider the Self and the Absolute? Are they not the same?

Ed Muzika No, they are not the same.

Self is of the manifest Consciousness. The Absolute, ParaBrahman, is that by which the manifest is known. It is the knowing principle of the Unmanifest, the flip side of the manifest world.

Turiya, Atman, are the "deepest" part of manifest Consciousness, while the Absolute witness, Para Brahman, is entirely beyond the manifest universe. It is where Robert, Ramana, and Nisargadatta dwelled the last years of their lives, entirely beyond sentience, Consciousness. You can only know of the absolute in opposition to Consciousness. Without an awareness of something, the absolute would not be known as the source of both knowing and not knowing.

Gurudatta Dattatreya Edji, How do you know where Robert, Ramana, and Nisargadatta dwelled the last years of their lives unless they told you or someone else told you?

How can you tell whatever fancy label you use, whether one is self-realized or not? What is the standards and judgments that you use?

Ed Muzika I lived close with Robert for eight years. I talked to him directly about such matters for most of that time. I transcribed his talks and was with him for over 500 satsangs. He confirmed my realization of the Absolute in 1995. I know that place well.

Nisargadatta states all this very clearly in his later books edited by my other teacher, Jean Dunn. He talks of realizing the Self as Bal-Krishna, baby Krishna, which grows into Krishna Consciousness of deep love and bliss, the bliss of Self.

And then later of going beyond Self, going beyond Turiya in his later books, such as Consciousness and the Absolute written in his last year alive. He says he went beyond Consciousness and abided in ParaBrahman. This was confirmed by my many meetings with one of his successors, Jean Dunn, my other teacher.

For me, as well as for Robert, and Deeya, Self-Realization was experienced one day while feeling intense love and bliss within and without.

Suddenly within my gut I felt a great power, a power so intense I had never experienced it before, and with it a blinding white light. Gradually and slowly it arose within me, up into my heart, totally washing me in a much deeper bliss and a sense of divine grace and worship of this "Other" of divine power and light arising from within.

It continued to arise into my throat, head and into the space above.

I was enveloped in light and power I had never known. And then I realized this "Other," God, was also myself. He and I were one. Or better, She and I were one. She breathed life into this body/mind called Muzika. Since then, She and I are never separate. She came to me five more times to seal the deal so to speak and to solidify our oneness.

Since then and as a result of Her revelation, I know pure knowing, knowing without an object to know. Also, I know pure love, love that exists always in me that needs no object to love.

This is what I call Self-Realization.

Charly Obermayr Wow...

Charly Obermayr Again so inspiring...

Ed Muzika And Gurudatta, I am not afraid of dependency, attachment, or even neediness. These are all human feelings not to be denied. As a matter of fact those who can fall deeply into love and surrender are the luckiest of people.

Right now if a great teacher appeared before me, or even more rare, a great student, I would drop to my knees and then do a full prostration, touching their feet in love and surrender.

Charly Obermayr Wow..

 I feel so much love for you, Ed

Ed Muzika In Deeya I see such greatness, and in Swami Chetananda, though I think he needs some encouragement.

Charly Obermayr Most cannot understand Edji

Charly Obermayr Better said, don't feel him

Charly Obermayr But the positive thing is, the more others mistrust, the more I trust.