From an admirer:
Ed -
Your website is largely an embarrassing rat's nest of jibber jabber with scattered coherent content and broken links which is poorly formatted and unprofessionally designed. Why even publish this mess in it's current state?
If you are redoing site, you may want to get off the Nicole Adams hating band wagon. It is very off-putting as is your negative, derogatory comments about other teachers in your blog. You are doing a service to none.
Regards,
Charlie
Ed:
We need Charlie to write derogatory remarks about other teachers for this blog.
I think Charlie knows our new website will be up soon, and it is gorgeous.
What drew me first to this website years ago was the unprofessional look to it. It did not seem like Edji was selling anything and was a person that was much more into getting Truth out than having a ordinary website that every other so-called guru has with all the stereo-typical pics and symbols of any tradition. Edji seemed interested only in telling his story and all if his trials and tribulations in the spiritual arena so us seekers could learn from instead of having a link to dvd's, cd's and pictures of himself looking oh so spiritual that you could buy. And I am so thankful to have found his site and to have his presence in my life. I am sure the new site will be nothing short of remarkable.
ReplyDeleteLove,
B
Well said ! Same thing here . Like an old book with only words , pointing somewhere inside.
ReplyDeleteKind of Zen Dojo , even if there would be some little repairs to do ;)
Will the new site have any more Robert Adams audio files, Ed?
ReplyDeleteI've been trying to listen to the Good for Nothing Man. I can only listen to it while that particular page is open. I can't download it, and I can't pause it, so every time I'm interrupted I have to start from the beginning again.
I agree with 'B', by the way. One of the reasons I stuck around initially is because you're not selling anything.
I'm looking forward to the new site.
Gary
I totally agree with B. Edji tells it exactly like it is, no sugar coating or hidden costs... in fact, no costs at all!
ReplyDeleteTake a look at this: http://www.eckharttolletv.com/join/ "We invite you..." for only $15 a month (live streaming only), in fact, for only $5 more they''ll let you download to your iPod or computer! God only knows what they'd charge if they gave you written transcripts or let you ask questions!
Edji gives it ALL for free. Those who value his time and efforts and all his free offerings - which are clearly growing with a new website coming - can show their appreciation and gratitude with a donation. His productions may not be fancy but the meat is there.
How many go free under Eckhart Tolle (and others) for $20 a month plus the cost of all his books and CD's and DVD's and, if you can possibly afford it, a live event?
How much would it be if you could personally email Echkart Tolle or telephone him or Skype him or sit with him weekly online in Satsang?
I don't dislike Eckhart Tolle, in fact I actually started my search with him and subscribed to his Eckhart Tolle TV and bought all his books and DVD's. BUT - while he makes you feel so very good, he is at the base of the mountain in the lovely retreat centre with air conditioning selling you tour packages (but he's not the tour guide).
Edji is the rough around the edges tour guide who will take you to the summit - with all the good and bad weather and bugs and rocks and chasms and falls along the way.
When you stumble or fall he'll pick you up, and brush you off so you can continue on. And he'll carefully guide you around all the hazards - sometimes hollering at you to watch out, and hollering even louder if you don't pay attention the first time - and then, when you are fortunate enough to reach the summit, Edji will then explain that this is just the beginning. And then he'll guide you through the many levels on the unseen peaks of the mountain, those beyond the summit, so that you don't get stuck on a ledge and think that you've finally really reached the 'top'.
So, dear Charlie... don't criticize Edji's methods and presentation, be grateful for the expert guide who's been there and taken many safely up the mountain and beyond.
I for one am EXTREMELY grateful for Edji, warts and all.
Let's be honest. Too many don't appreciate the great value that Edji provides and take all they can for free, but give nothing in return and some, like Charlie, verbally attack and criticize.
Edji's students have put out an appeal to help Edji and I agree with them... it is high time we all showed our appreciation to Edji for all he gives us so that he can retire, which will actually make him more available to all of us!
By the way, I understand his upcoming online intensive and his meditation retreat next year are both free Charlie... are you going, or are you afraid that you might actually start to climb the mountain?
Love and gratitude for all who help Edji get his message out (for free!), and, of course, to Edji, who makes me believe I can actually climb that mountain now because I trust him completely and have faith that he'll catch me each time I slip or fall and, when I'm not paying attention, that he'll love me enough to holler at me!
A grateful student who sees the brilliant gem in the unpolished stone.
Bingo!
ReplyDeleteMatthew
Yes,
ReplyDeleteI completly agree with B. I think that most people in general want to attend the weekend semainars and other stupid DVD's and taht a guru is selling. We are so blessed to have you Edji and your Website both itsnotreal and wearesentience. There is apsolutely nothing wrong with them.
What hurt serious seekers is these people who have made the sprituality a new busniess.
Love,
S
Geez guys, I am humbled by your comments.
ReplyDeleteAfter Infinity made me take all of Robert's transcripts and audio talks down, several new sites came online with his COMPLETE teachings. I am sure more have proliferated, but the one that comes to mind immediately is http://robert-adams.info.
These sites came up because Robert's works were no longer available on itisnotreal.com because of Nicole Adams continuous threats of lawsuit. So this site may come down too at any time. So, download what you want immediately.
Dont worry Edji, they cannot stop the internet. I would also like to extend my appreciation not only for all you do for us and giving of yourself so freely, but for you patience as we blockheads try to move past our humanhood.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Isaac
Are there any videos of robert? I have never seen his form move, only heard his voice.
ReplyDeleteThis post cracks me up. Thanks for the laughs Charlie!
ReplyDeleteShawn
Yes, Charlie you are right, Ed's sites are not the fanciest, most perfect looking sites on the net but who cares. It is the content and wonderful pure spirit which draws others here. Charlie, you really should not have left "Two and a half men" ......bit of sour grapes , I think.
ReplyDeleteWe still love you Charlie.
Love, Shane
In fact I downloaded the Collected Works of Robert Adams only last night after much hunting. All the torrent sites have removed their Robert Adams files. I wish I could find some more audio files of Robert's Satsangs. I love his dry sense of humour.
ReplyDelete"Edji is the rough around the edges tour guide who will take you to the summit - with all the good and bad weather and bugs and rocks and chasms and falls along the way."
Like Michael Douglas in Romancing the Stone! I guess that makes Charlie Danny De Vito.
Gary
Hi Charlie, you sound like you may be a friend of Nicole or of Infinity Institute, trying your usual to get the notreal website down. The broken links are due to her constant threats of a lawsuit if I kept up certain material. There would be no broken links otherwise.
ReplyDeleteI am not a friend of Nicole, but I have had contact with her via email however. Based on that correspondence and carefully going through the ICL site, you two seem to have more in common than you think.
ReplyDeleteRegards,
Charlie
It is odd that you state she has contacted you via email. Her attorney as well as a functionary at Infinity says she is not in contact with anyone by email and has been in a hospital for three years. I have been forbidden by her attorney to contact her directly as have been most others.
ReplyDeleteIf you communicated directly, you have accomplished what no other I know has done.
If she wants a friendly meetings with me, and you can arrange it, it is fine. Otherwise I regard you as totally making this up, or someone close to her that wants a rise out of me.
Your responses have proven what we suspected. Please, for the benefit of mankind, go away.
ReplyDeleteCharlie
"We" Charlie? Infinity or ICL?
ReplyDeleteSweet baby Jesus, look at these nuts! I'm beginning to realize one of the reasons I always distrusted guru lineages and stayed away from groups such as SRF is how rapidly they turn gold into shit, like some reverse alchemy. Yet at the same time, a guru can be essential to bring things together as well as helping to throw out the garbage. But alas, all things pass and forms fall apart to reform into totally new ways and styles.
ReplyDeleteCharlie and company, you are demanding somebody to go away, but to quote one agent of universal intelligence, Let it be.
Shawn
Charlie,
ReplyDeleteDo you mean 'for the benefit of our bank balance, go away'?
What are Ed's crimes against humanity?
Gary
Some people grow old and bitter..
ReplyDeleteAs my great teacher says Its all in what you identify with. Mmmmm,!
ReplyDeleteKeith
Charlie, straight to the point nice one you smooth talking fatherless child.
ReplyDeleteWelcome to the chaos you must transcend after you have been knocked of your high horse.
Peace brother... right off!
Edji is right, you need a hug, but only after I give you a good slap to wake you up; it’s amazing what a good slap can do for you if you’re a right Charlie.
I had a right Charlie as a disciple just like you and he said to me ‘Your Kung Fu is sudden, wicked, quick and deadly; your teaching is not Spiritual; your Zen is derogatory, baffling and cruel and your ego is the size of a sky scraper (a really big sky scraper)’.
I told him that I only keep that sacred knowledge for my most devoted disciples and then through stealth, surprise and excellent technique I slapped him a cracker and he discovered the sound of one hand clapping directly.
Then mountains were again mountains and trees again trees.
After that enlightening experience I told him ‘Better to remain silent and be thought a right Charlie, than to speak and remove all doubt’.
Turn the other cheek Charlie the next slaps a-cummin wicked, quick and straight to the knockout.
In the Spirit of the Way
Lord Sam Ram
@ your service
No gary,
ReplyDeleteCharlie is saying for the benefit of Nichole, go away, so the infinity can sell all Robert's stuff for money.
Edji is apsolutely right. This person is either from Infinity or their supporter or a relative or perhaps Nichole herself.
It's sickening to see this because Edji has always be very humble to them in this whole process probably because of his Love and Devotion to Roberts.
Thank you Edji,
S
This "Charlie" might just be Charlie Hayes, a grandstanding Neo Advaitan who's featured prominently on Youtube and even was showcased in a rather negative light on the website of author Dennis Waite who on another occasion took another Neo Advaitan to task for his agenda.
ReplyDeleteMark
lol - I picked right up on that "we" also. Very entertaining "Charlie" - thanks for the chuckles!
ReplyDeleteTony
Apparent 'control' phenomena, fingers in ears, "Na na na na na na na . . . you're a poo!" I-I-dentifying with, "age regressed I-experiencing-I not getting 'my way'." Beyond numberless (I-dependent) suggestions, what, if any, unassailable universal 'rules of conduct' are there?
ReplyDeleteChris
Sorry but all I see is ego here coming from Charlie but also this blog site. It's filled with pride some is very apparent and a lot is extremely subtle..
ReplyDeleteAlso this subject of awakening cracks me up. Who awakens ask that question first. The answer is no one awakens. There is no one home to awake in the first place. All this talk about stages, process, almost there etc is pure BS.
Well nuff said thanks for the laugh from both sides of this counterfeit coin.
Ramana
Ramana, so you know "no one" in yourself, which means you know there is no ego. You state there is no one in anyone to awaken. Therefore there is no ego in anyone, logically.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, I am interested in how you see ego in this blog and in writers to this blog if no one and no ego exists anywhere.
What I think I see is Chalie B, who admitted in an email to me he was not Charlie B, and who continues to criticize under another name.
If you are truly empty of ego and reaction, maybe you'd like to tell us who you are Ramana, because I am pretty sure you are not the Maharshi.
And, the process or method offered on this blog and website, self-abidance, is the same as offered by Ramana Maharshi, my teacher, Robert Adams, and especially by Nisargadatta, his Dharma brother, Ranjit Maharaj, and their teacher.
I think you have mistaken your conceptual awakening, of understanding there is no one to awaken, for a real awakening, where one experiences no I, and the unity of world, body and inner experience when the misconception of personhood is first revealed.
Even that is only a tip of the tongue awakening, but I think you may be a tip of the tongue kind of fellow.
Ed,
ReplyDeleteBut of course ego is needed to see ego. All that I am saying is when you speak about a process to awakening you have put the cart ahead of the horse. There is never such a thing as progression to awakening. Once you get that idea in your head/mind that you need to get something you have already placed your true nature in illusion. Your description above of "real awakening" is false in your example their is still a seer that experiences a no I, unity of the world etc. As long as you see these phenomena you are still in illusion.
However though I do not see you as a real teacher/Guru I do see a very kind man that has a wonderful love of animals esp. cats and for that you have my deep respect.
Take care
Ramana
Ramana. Now it appears you are saying that you still have ego in order to see my ego, which means you are not awakened. Is this not correct? Which means you have no first hand experience or direct knowledge of what awakening is. You have second hand knowledge, borrowed concepts whether from Krishnamurti, U.G., whoever.
ReplyDeleteActually, Ramana, once you see these phenomena, and are aware that you witness them, you have stepped out of the illusion altogether. You realize you are on a completely different ontological level than the phenomena and they have nothing to do with you.
Ramana, what is your experience, and why are you moved to set me and others straight about what awakening is, and then just dance away without providing any validation, evidence or experience to back your claim?
Ed,
ReplyDeleteWithout ego your body simply dies.
Of course many folks can only look at one side of ego. Anyone that knows they are and always have been awaken also knows that ego is needed to function in this 3D world that we have made up. However when I used the term ego here I was using it as pointing to pride which is never a help on the spiritual path. Sure anyone can witness phenomena it's very easy to do.
To the question on why I feel the need to set the record straight well why not. Why have people suffer when they can simply know that they have always been awake.
Now words here tend not to do justice. Life is a mystery. When I say that everyone has always been awake and their is no one to be awaken. Because in truth Ed, Ramana and everyone else do not exist at all. When I say such things your mind will quickly find fault with my words. Now when you know your true nature then everything I just pointed to is fully understood with no problem.
So I leave with this. Save the folks that are following your teachings a lot of time. Sooner or later the seeking with stop. The seeker will be no more, the seeker will have no energy nor desire left and at that point the seeing of one's true nature happens. So imho you as a teacher will do much more good if you tell your folks just to stop, stop the seeking, stop trying to get somewhere there is nowhere to get to. You are it, the it that you seek is your own self. All that you see as a world is simply you. You do not need to go through the trials and tribulation of experiences to see your true nature. All that is ever required of you is to stop and be quiet and look at yourself. Who you truly are will be seen. The reason why so few get this is because it's much to close to us and way to simple.
Ramana
Ramana, you are the perfect example of neo-advaitin. Do nothing and know you don't exist.
ReplyDeleteI leave you only with one thought: Why is it all the great teachers suggested practice of some sort, such as self-inquiry, self-abidance, etc., from Nisargadatta, his Dharma brother Ranjit, their teacher, my teacher, Robert, Ramanana, Ramakrishna, etc.
It is easy to see after awakening that you do not exist, but to only hear that you do not exist really does not do much.
I never talk about stages, so I don't know where you got the idea that I do.
Now, you say that after years of practice, the seeker's energy will grow weak, and seeing of one's nature will happen, as if the seeker is not already seeing his true nature. Now, you say, all that I have to do is say not to seek, you already are, and somehow abiding in non-seeking will bring about the seeing more readily.
But again, Ramana, you leave out your experience. Again you only repeat the neo-Advaitin mantra that you are already free.
How many who have heard this have actually gone free? You neos have so much self-assurance, but very little in terms of sharing your experience, or any sharing of what your experience means.
Don't you see the arrogance in your stance, that you have it right, and I and my readers wrong?
You advise against practice while all the great ones encouraged it. They got it wrong too, from Ramana who advised self-inquiry and abiding in the self, to Nisargadatta who also advised abide in the I Am in order to learn you are beyond it, to Ramakrishna who spent most of his life worshiping Kali, or other practices to "get" all the other viewpoints, to Zen, with its 25,000 koans.
What arrogance to go up against this vast body of evidence without any proof by means of your own experience.
Ramana,
ReplyDeleteI had a friend who had a sudden awakening. He was never a seeker. He was an atheist. It was such shock to him. But because it happened to him so unexpectedly he was convinced I didn't need to do anything to awaken but to just stop. Very much what you say. Well, that pretty much annoyed me as I did stop but nothing happened.
But I know that when I met Edji it was all about his presence for me and not what he was talking about. Something happened, there was a recognition. The mind didn't die but I saw it as just something that floats but it doesn't stick, thoughts dodn't affect me, etc. And I laughed and laughed. And this was just a very common awakening experience that opened the door for me.
I am now convinced that it is not about any teachings but the presence of a teacher. For me it's not so much what Edji says but his presence that stills my mind, that awakens the Shakti in me. The Love I experience in his presence is so powerful that I would feel drunk, ecstatic and often go into Samadhi.
But I realize this is my path, my personal experience and that is all I can talk about. But it wasn't my friend's path so he speaks from his experience, which is "you don't need to do anything". Edji's path was different too and he speaks from that perspective. And yet there is something to be said about those who awaken through intense practice. A friend of mine who lived with Osho for 5 years told me once - there are Buddhas and there are Masters (those who can liberate others). I believe Edji falls in the Master's category.
I love you Edji and feel deep gratitude for your presence in my life,
Janet
Dear Janet I have read about your feelings for Ed. If he did it for you then that's great but being awaken is not like a lovesick puppy that is drunk in the mist of any Samadhi when your in his presence.
ReplyDeleteWhat you are describing is much more in the Shakti-Pat category but again this has nothing to do with awakening.
Being awake is simply seeing what is. Seeing no difference in a chair or a person. Seeing that it's all the same fabric of being.
Bless you
Ramana
Well my last post I see you removed the post I had that actually had some valuable teachings.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for you Edji you are full of pride and ego by removing my last post you have proven my point all along. You simply do not allow anyone's truth or teachings except your own. I very much doubt that you are awaken too much my way or the highway to be awake.
Ramana
My, my Ramana, such judgmentalism and contempt you show. I removed your post because you were spinning out a bunch of concepts without stating your experiences which justify them.
ReplyDeleteAnyone can have concepts, what sets yours above others?
Now, what you describe as your awakened mind, to me is still someone who has not gone beyond consciousness. Everything is consciousness for you. But you are so eager to set yourself apart, that if anyone says anything even close to what you say, you say they are wrong, tat, tat old man, have a good life.
Do you not see the arrogance here, that the only TRUTH is your viewpoint?
Nor have you responded to my previous questions, such as do you go against the advice of Ramana Maharshi, Robert Adams, Ramakrishna, and Nisargadatta, his dharma brother, Ranjit, and their teacher, that practice is necessary?
There is such utter superiority in your every utterance, no humility or ability to reach out to anyone except to condemn, criticize or invalidate their own experiences or understanding.
Some day you may be able to see how your experience--unarticulated as it is--has blinded you to the need even to be civil in discourse.
Janet, You are so prized by any teacher. Someone who will stick around and get what the teacher has to give.
ReplyDeleteYou offered Ramana your truth and he stepped on it, saying you have no idea what truth is. He is truth in his own eyes and he wants you to listen to him. But all he has to give is neo Advaitin, Facebook-style concepts, while you give to him from the depths of your being.
Your openness and truth are a paradigm for others to follow. Do you see any love in Ramana? Everyone sees it in you.
I'd like my readers to recognize that persons like Ramana and Charlie B never identify themselves. They feel when their wisdom is recognized, then they can reveal themselves as a great teacher. In the meantime, they crowd Facebook and various blogs as commenters, with very little to offer except neo-advaitin concepts taken from Tolle or other neos, never their own experience, or how that experience translated into the concepts "truths" they offer.
ReplyDeleteDear Ramana,
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I feel so happy and complete that care less for knowing what real awakening is.
One thing I am convinced though - none of it is my own doing so why try.
I don't know much about your awakening but wish you came back happier.
However, I do see you want to teach and hope you get to become a great teacher one day.
Love you,
Janet
Ed.......
ReplyDeleteYes, to which I'd ask isn't it just possible the "neo Advaitans" might have just a single experience, yet a pseudo Awakening they then feel makes them qualified to spout their brand of conceptual silliness. I've noticed this time and again. Heck, they might even create websites to that effect so as to "showcase" this nonsense.
Mark
Dear Janet I am happy for you. and I thank you for your comments.
ReplyDeleteEd as far as throwing out my post because it's all conceptual well you should know as a teacher that everything you say about the absolute, consciousness, awakening etc is nothing but concepts. Your issue seems to be that you throw out whatever concepts you don't like and keep the ones you do like. My own experience is not conceptual but real however to put it into language concepts are needed. If you really are awake then you should know everything you say or I say or anyone says is a lie. Truth can never be spoken.
The other problem you have is this idea of progression which I am sure came from all those years in Zen playing around with Korans you end up being programed that work and effort is needed to see your true nature. This is the big lie.
Good luck with whatever you are trying to do. Great luck with all the cats and much love to you for caring.
Ramana
Who is hiding behind Ramana? And why? :-)
ReplyDeleteRamana, thank you for the civil discourse.
ReplyDeleteHowever, you are determined to teach me and others reading this blog your concepts, and state they are different from mine. You say I teach progression towards the goal of awakening. I don’t. I don’t talk about stages either, but you assume that is my teaching.
When in a previous post I talked to one student about what could be his progressive experience, it was because I met him where he was, following a certain practice. I told him what might unfold in that practice, but I also indicated this was not awakening. But you didn’t notice this.
Janet also was not talking in terms of real or unreal awakening. She said she is happy where she is and about how she feels and what she understands. You did not see this either. You only saw it as another opening to push concepts.
Yes, Nisargadatta’s concepts, and Robert’s, and my own are lies too, but they are presented to counteract other lies deeply buried in the public mind. These too are to be discarded.
But this is not Facebook which is a forum for everyone to proclaim different sorts of enlightenment as utter truth with utter conviction, and with almost no one stating whether they had an awakening experience, or their “Truth” is entirely conceptual.
You never present what your experience is or was and how your conclusions, your concepts or truth follow from your experience.
So, you understand that all phenomena, objects, people, emptiness and the observed witness are of one material. So what? This is a kind of beginner’s awakening.
You understand that time is a concept. So what? This is a common understanding found in almost all traditions. What makes you think this is something vital left out of the teachings on this site?
AND, YOU HAVE NEVER, NEVER ANSWERED MY CHALLENGE TO WHY YOU OPPOSE THE ADVICE GIVEN BY THE GREAT TEACHERS SUCH AS NISARGADATTA, RAMANA MAHARSHI, RANJIT, AND RAMAKRISHNA THAT PRACTICE IS NECESSARY, MOSTLY IN THE PRACTICE OF ABIDING IN THE SELF OR I AM.
None of these people, except Ranjit, talk about stages either.
There is nothing you offer but conclusions, which are relatively tame and don’t go very deep in my opinion.
Also, as you can see, I teach my own way and state people can listen and learn, or reject as they want. But lots of time people already have a practice, or have a misunderstanding, or have a problem. A good teacher will know where they are and reach out to them there rather than just repeat over and over, stop seeking and realize you already are what you seek.
You have not seen this. You have one message that does not “work” for a lot of people, and you want me to adopt that message of yours. You want me to make you a co-teacher on this blog presenting what I consider useless teachings and concepts.
But you even lack the courage to identify yourself. Sometimes you are Charlie B, and others you are Ramana. Many of the people here on this thread did identify themselves and put themselves on the line. You do not. This speaks volumes regarding who you are.
It happened when I was 12 years old. We were all sitting at the dinner table and ran out of pop(soda). I ran into the kitchen grabbed a large bottle and headed towards the dinner table. I shouted I have some POP spelling the letters. Just before the last P lightening struck our house went through the roof and then through me and the floor and ended up putting in a large crack on the concrete floor in the basement. My Dad thought I was dead, he told me I just raised my whole body vertically around 2 feet off the ground. However I was far from being dead.
ReplyDeleteThis experience was 'a full blown awakening' I was absolutely certain that it was not located in time or space. I am also certain that what I am is unlimited, unlocated, unborn, unchanging, undying Presence. This more than just a glimpse was a revelation of that which is ever-present in my experience. This means that right now, in this very simple act of reading these words, that non-objective experience is present.
From that day till now I simply see the world as myself meaning my true nature not the human being that is typing these words.
I never said not to follow Nis or Ramana teachings but again there was no progression to them. At most it was simply sit and be still and quiet. They knew that awakening will happen when it happens not because of any effort on your part but because of the mystery of Grace. I read many times on your blog etc when you said to someone your almost there now keep it up etc. This is not how awakening happens. There is not a almost there place you are awaken or not and that's it.
"Being"
No trace of Truth in a human face
Only the Love that fills all space
No "me" over here
No "you" over there
No person who can "be aware"
Liberation is here right now
No-one can possibly teach you how
To the restless mind this will never be clear
It's beyond the reach of mortal ear
Being is found in the still, quiet space
Bearing witness of itself in every place
Yet there's nowhere that it cannot be found
It's both the silence and the sound.
It has many names, like "God" or "Being"
Talked about in "glimpses" and "seeing"
But all the while there's no-thing to "see"
It's simply found where there's no-one to BE
Ramana
Thank you Ramana for finally giving your experience.
ReplyDeleteHowever, you really have not followed what I say about awakening. I never talk about a progression to awakening. You mistake encouragement for a belief on my part.
As Janet pointed out, just because you had a sudden awakening without practice, that does not mean ANYONE ELSE can without a lightning boltor something else in their genetic/psychological composition.
Yes, you are speakingh out against what Nisargadatta and the others say by saying practice and self-inquiry, etc., is not the way. Then here you say it is true if they meant a quiet abidance in the self, or the I Am, but that is exactly what I have beed suggesting all along.
Yes, grace comes at some point, but is that grace not a function of loving, surrender, or self-abidance.
Also Ramana, every 3rd or 4th comment you become extremely rude and non accepting of where people are and accept only your experience and understanding as the "final truth."
Ramana, it may amaze you, but there are many seekers who do not want your kind of experience and want something else. You have to be able to help them get what they want, then they are happy, or they recognize they want something different or more.
Being a teacher requires you to know people psychologically, not just to always sing one note, and that note always being, "No, you have it wrong, listen to my truth."
Well Ed I agree to disagree. I still see you working with your students in the hope to get them somewhere or some place. When anyone has a authentic awakening the first thing they notice is they were "it" all along, that nothing new came into their picture.As far as being a teacher Ed the truth of awakening is so darn simple you only need one note to sing the truth. Anything more and you begin to move away from the truth.
ReplyDeleteGood night all
Ramana
@ Ramana: When all is about to stop or doing nothing, then why do you start discussing? And for whom?
ReplyDeleteYour words miss being humble to the Grace for your own sudden awakening - in fact your words are arrogant.
Ed is right with mentioning, that not everyone wants experiences like you and I had.
(I am the friend that Janet mentioned in one of her previous comments)
Although I can see it now as a act of Grace, I don't wish anyone else, what it was meant to go through, because contrary to you with 12 years it meant for me the whole life upside-down as a 44 year old man with all duties in Life.
So when there are other ways in time and together with a teacher to recognize the Truth, then also this is Grace.
Papaji had also an awakening experience as a child - and only after meeting Ramana many years later his search came to an end and he could speak with his own authority.
Even Nisargadatta needed 3 years. His words are also arrogant, but in the meaning of the latin origin a-rogare (before questioning) he spoke from before any question can arise. And although his words were sometimes tough, underneath there was deepest love and also humor. And his words have power - until now!
That's the big difference to you, who focuses on judging and criticizing other teachers. Something that neither Ramana Maharshi, Nisargadatta or other masters did.
And no - I am not another student of Ed and don't see him as a master or teacher. But I am very happy that someone like him walks on this planet and very thankful for all, what he does for other ones like my friend Janet.
Om shanti, shanti, shanti
Nooriji
I have been following all these posts, but with no desire to say anything until now.
ReplyDeleteRamana, your lack of humility and love for all serious spiritual seekers simply blows me out of the water.
How arrogant of you to tell us 'awakening is so darn simple you only need one note to sing the truth'.
If it is that darn simple, give us that 'note'! Why hold back something that is so darn simple? Why dangle that 'carrot' in front of everyone?
You certainly weren't able to do it for yourself. It took a lightning bolt! If it was really that simple and you were ready why didn't you do it before the lightning struck? It would have saved a lot trouble!
From my perspective, you are not 'awake', you are just 'separated' as was Jill Bolte Taylor after her 'stroke of insight'... but at least she is doing everything she can to help people realize there is something else we should know. http://blog.ted.com/2008/03/12/jill_bolte_tayl/
What are YOU doing to help the rest of us Ramana?
And are you REALLY sure you are fully awake?
Personally, I am puzzled that you are even posting on this blog if you are already fully awake. I also believe you a doing a great disservice (with your posts) to anyone who might be caught up in your game clever words.
And, if your real name is NOT Ramana... what utter arrogance to even begin to think you can come close to this great Sage in any way, shape or form.
With great love for all,
Jo-Ann
...who clearly still has lots of ego left because Ramana pisses me off! ;-)
Edji,
ReplyDeleteI love these discussions and I would love to lock horns with Ramana wot’s his name. For me meditating on ‘I amness’ or questioning with intensity ‘who am I?’, the requirement is a body that is a powerful, responsive instrument, vital energy, concentrated mental power and the ability to direct it and intuitive faculties that align with pure unconditioned intelligence, That which was there before the pure consciousness was conditioned by hundreds of different mostly contradictory sources since birth.
If the body is weak, the energy is weak and so the intelligence follows, because matter, energy and intelligence cannot be separated and if that is so, the mind cannot concentrate and direct its power to a single point, nor can it open up that concentrated power to contemplate whatever subject matter that is in front of it, without the involuntary movement of attachments, associations, memories, thoughts, dreams, emotions, desires and biological energies interfering and so it cannot dissolve into the stateless state that creates, interpenetrates and transcends all matter, energy and intelligence, where there is no thinking, concentrating, contemplating, or meditating mind.
As I see it there is simply no jumping platform.
You gave me the last key no doubt, but as soon as I got it after much release of repressed emotions and mad events as the content of the consciousness was breaking up and throwing out acquired past life action.
This is what happened. The body, its animating energy, heart-mind, intention-power, awakened intelligence and the all-immersing void united and all action came from emptiness and has continued to do so unerringly.
I can remain there; empty, void, with not even the movement of awareness or intelligence, but as soon as someone speaks, or action is required, I am there instantly and as soon as the action is over, the return to emptiness is instant, without any residue of the event whatsoever.
I encountered compassion, love, bliss, ecstasy, clarity and emotional calm in the midst of this human chaos initially, but under no circumstances am I now fooled by that illusion of god, because compared to non-dual internal power that state only helps to buffer the individual from the awe and terror they will face as they encounter the abyss.
I feel real serious preparation is an absolute requirement, because even my most devoted practitioners have recoiled back in horror and cannot stabilize when the mind goes into abeyance even for a moment.
Over to you Edji
Sam
Well one man a long time ago pissed off a lot of people and he ended up being hanged on a cross. I am very humble when it comes to things of this world. However when it comes to truth my sword cuts deep. Awakening is more simple than simple and it's the very reason why most on the path miss it. It is also written the the truth will set you free and it does but the truth also carries with it the responsibility to share it as it is not what anyone may think it is.
ReplyDeleteI hear on this blog the mentioning Swami Muktananda what a joke. This man was nothing more than the lowest of beings. He had sex with young boys and much worse. I know I followed him for a while and again the truth is not well accepted. Here's the problem most people do not want the truth so teachers like Ed and others give them what they want. I am happy that my own teachers were not like this if they were I still be a seeker lost in my own inquiry.
Ramana is my spiritual name given to me by Papaji however before I met Papaji I spent 3 years with Maharaj(Nisargadatta). None of my teachers ever believed in a progression such as states you need to go through before you are awaken but this is a fact of Ed teachings you see it in the book he co-authored and in his satsangs. So I leave you with this truth. Being awake is your true nature, you have never been not awake. The only thing that gets in your way is the teaching that someday awakening will come to you if you are a good student and follow your teacher advice. That someday never comes. What happen to Ed in his shower experience would have happen regardless if he spent years in Zen or met Robert.
My guess is Ed's shower experience would have happened many years before if he was not playing with the mind keeping his own-self from seeing the truth.
Peace to all
Ramana
Thank you Ramana for giving us your truth in the last post... I think we are all awake now :p
ReplyDeleteRicky
Sweet Edji,
ReplyDeleteJust so you know, the Ramana that is posting here is not me, Ramana Spencer...Papaji named a couple of us Ramana. Two or maybe three actually.
a smile and a bow.
Ramana Spencer
“Well one man a long time ago pissed off a lot of people and he ended up being hanged on a cross. I am very humble when it comes to things of this world. However when it comes to truth my sword cuts deep.”
ReplyDeleteRamana, now you equate yourself with Jesus Christ? Such modesty! Looking at how you dismiss my students’ experiences, I really doubt there is much humility anywhere in your life.
“Awakening is more simple than simple and it's the very reason why most on the path miss it.”
If it was so simple Ramana, why did you spend years with Nisargadatta, Muktananda, Papaji and other teachers AFTER your awakening at age 12, unless that was a bogus story?
“I hear on this blog the mentioning Swami Muktananda what a joke. This man was nothing more than the lowest of beings. He had sex with young boys and much worse. I know I followed him for a while and again the truth is not well accepted.”
Ramana, though Muktananda is mentioned on this blog, I have never endorsed him. I said I saw him many times at Satsang and never got what he was about. You distort the teachings presented on this site to make a point that I don’t disagree with, as if I did.
“Here's the problem most people do not want the truth so teachers like Ed and others give them what they want. I am happy that my own teachers were not like this if they were I still be a seeker lost in my own inquiry.”
“Ramana is my spiritual name given to me by Papaji however before I met Papaji I spent 3 years with Maharaj (Nisargadatta).”
“None of my teachers ever believed in a progression such as states you need to go through before you are awaken but this is a fact of Ed teachings you see it in the book he co-authored and in his satsangs.”
Ramana, this is a very surprising admission. You say you are glad the teachers you were with did not believe in a progression, because, “if they were, I would still be a seeker lost in my own inquiry.”
You now admit you were awakened by teachers that did not believe in progression, not because of a lightning stroke at age 12. So which is it? Awakened by lightning at age 12, or by a spiritual teacher who did not believe in progression or practice?
I never, ever talk about progression from where one is to enlightenment or awakening. It is a matter of the mind opening up, concepts dropping, misconceptions being destroyed. Grace evidently plays a large place here, but even that is a concept. I do believe in making an effort, just as suggested by Nisargadatta, Ramana and Robert. There is a difference between making an effort to awaken, and a progression.
ReplyDeleteRajiv needed the words I told him. He came to me after 12 years of intense practice. He had a few concepts that needed to be dropped. I’ll tell you, those words did not come from me. It was as if Consciousness spoke through me to him directly. It was not me.
And, I did not give him your words, I gave him Nisargadatta’s words, who did talk about subtle and causal bodies, and going beyond them into not knowing.
More on your awakening story. You say you were awakened by a lightning bolt at age 12, yet you then state you spent years and years with various teachers, such as Muktananda, Papaji and 3 years with Nisargadatta, as well as other teachers.
Why?
If you were awakened, and it was so simple, why did you spend so many years after your awakening wandering around with many teachers? Was it that you continued to not understand, or was there something else were you looking for? AND, what is the difference between wandering around various teachers before awakening, versus your stated wandering around those same teachers after awakening? What was not clear after your awakening?
OR, was the story you told of awakening at age 12 really a fabrication, and perhaps, as some have suggested, you are really Charlie Hayes, who came to me five years ago, physically ill and suicidal, and who then went to Sailor Bob and John Wheeler and had some sort of awakening, and returned preaching the same one note of instant enlightenment you teach.
I do believe you may be Charlie Hayes, as the comment of your that I deleted, and about which you complained saying you felt sorry for me for not posting your “valuable teachings,” was lifted directly from Charlie Hayes’ latest blog entry.
Now, Ramana, if you had all this direct, simple insight, why would you have to borrow words that fit your teachings from Charlie Hayes’ blog, unless you are really don’t have any teachings of your own.
Charlie teaches this same instant enlightenment, even though his awakening came to a 68 year old man after 40 years of spiritual search with Muktananda and Nisargadatta in the 1970s, Papaji at some point, and many other teachers, such as Sailor Bob and John Wheeler, without any acknowledgement of effect of his 40 year search and striving.
“So I leave you with this truth. Being awake is your true nature, you have never been not awake. The only thing that gets in your way is the teaching that someday awakening will come to you if you are a good student and follow your teacher advice.”
ReplyDeleteReally, Ramana, “the only thing that gets in your way is the teaching that someday you will awaken.”
Really? That simple huh? That is why people have searched for truth, transcendental states, awakening, happiness, etc., for thousands of years, and the only thing that keeps them from it, is the belief they are not enlightened already and they have to follow a teacher to escape?
Don't you see Ramana, there are so many end sates that one can call awakening, and they are all different. Ramakrishna strived only for the love of Kali, not an Advaita awakening. Ditto Christ, who taught only about forgiveness and love. You see, yours is only a niche, and not everyone looks for or would be satisfied with your experience.
Please Ramana, Charlie, have the courage to reveal yourself. I am an open book because of my blogs and websites, but you stay hidden behind “Charlie B” or “Ramana.” Where is the courage in this? Where is your sharp sword of truth here? why hide away?
July 31, 2011
Charlie, you can keep sending me comments about how wrong I am about everything, how I mislead everyone, but until to tell me who you are, your soapbox has just disappeared.
ReplyDelete@ Ramana: "However when it comes to truth my sword cuts deep."
ReplyDeleteOnly the swordless sword can do that - and then it is not 'my' sword.
I do hope Charlie comes back here and set you straight. It seems Ed that you not only jump to conclusions but most of the time your incorrect. It's clear to me now why you are not allowing any more posts of mine. I'm getting to close to the truth of the matter and you are running scared. Oh well good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteRamana
Ramana posted:
ReplyDelete"Being"
No trace of Truth in a human face
Only the Love that fills all space
No "me" over here
No "you" over there
No person who can "be aware"
Liberation is here right now
No-one can possibly teach you how
To the restless mind this will never be clear
It's beyond the reach of mortal ear
Being is found in the still, quiet space
Bearing witness of itself in every place
Yet there's nowhere that it cannot be found
It's both the silence and the sound.
It has many names, like "God" or "Being"
Talked about in "glimpses" and "seeing"
But all the while there's no-thing to "see"
It's simply found where there's no-one to BE
Ramana
My goodness Ramana, this is a very beautiful poem but also a stunning bit of plagiarism on your part!
I wonder what Mandi Solk thinks of you signing your name to her poem? http://www.mandisolk.com/
Tut, Tut... not very humble or honest of you. Where's the truth you so often talk about?
Love to All,
Jo-Ann
I am not posting your comments Ramana because you are not identifying yourself. You have not made a case for your truth. You plagerize poems, and steal stuff off of Charlie Hayes blog, if you are not Charlie himself. I have no idea what YOUR truth is as it all seems borrowed.
ReplyDeleteIn one post you say you had a complete, full blown awakening at age 12, and when questioned why did you then follow many teachers, you commented that that awakening was only partial. You are a moving target. I'd like to see the real you in the light of day.
I don't mean just your spiritual name. You are hiding your identity for some reason, and lack the courage to dialogue except as a phantom.
But of course it's Mandi. I never pretended that the words were mine?
ReplyDeleteI actually put her name at the end at least I thought I did but when it was approved for posting her name was not there and of course we can not edit our own posts so I just let it go. You clearly misunderstood I put my name at the end of all my posts it just so happens that her poem was the end and it looked like I was taking credit. But you should know this if your looking that closely at my posts you will see Ramana always at the end of all my posts. It feels like you cherry picked one post that could be taken the incorrect way and then called me on it?
Shame on you just kidding but you should have known I put my name at the end of every post.
Ramana
You people need serious help. I am hiding nothing and I don't even know this Charlie you speak of and no I did not plagiarize poems.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow this will be my last post I clearly see how cult like you are and have no desire to be a part of it by posting comments.
I have been studying Advaita Vedanta for over forty years including all the traditional sources. I have not been impressed by the current crop of New Age Advaita teachers, whose teachings might be characterized as "the cult of non-practice". Such teachings may be attractive and consoling to those who wish to be congratulated for being "already realized" but not so useful to those who are truly moved to realize the true nature of self and world for real. They do have the value of introducing newbies to the fundamental conclusions of non-dualism, but the seemingly logical advice to engage in no spiritual practice has a serious flaw. This flaw is the failure to recognize or acknowledge that nearly everyone is already doing a very intense practice -- the practice of identification with a presumed separate self. All of the devastating consequences including fear, sorrow, anger and all the rest -- called "suffering" in Buddhism -- follow from this already ongoing practice. This practice is not undone by simply reading the great Advaitic conclusions and somehow "noticing" that they are true. Such noticing doesn't cut very deep into the already firmly-held conviction of separation and mortality. Those teachers who merely offer "pointers" to one's true nature delude their followers into thinking that nothing beyond noticing what is being pointed to is necessary. For awhile, at first, this may seem to "work", but soon the deeply entrenched practice of egoity and presumption of separation reasserts itself with a vengeance.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to see Robert Adams wonderful book, "Silence of the Heart", sometimes lumped into the category of such New Age Neo-Advaita. It is actually something quite different. It is far more reflective of the strong non-dualistic teachings of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. Such traditional teachers fully understood the power of maya and did not underestimate its force. While they articulated the highest non-dualistic conclusions, they also offered potent practices to undermine the deeply encrusted egoic presumptions of aspirants. Robert Adams teaches in this same spirit. This book contains the highest wisdom that can be expressed in words along with a healthy respect for the obstacles faced by sincere aspirants. Adams offers the kind of realistic assessment and authentic practices to move beyond the limitations which have plagued us for eons, into the clear light of authentic wisdom and transcendental realization. Robert Adams was the real deal and is worthy of serious attention. Highly recommended for those who wish to move beyond the sometimes inspiring, but ultimately limited offerings of the New Age Neos.
Dear Donna,
ReplyDeleteWonderful post.
For those who would like to read Robert Adam's book, a warning, the latest editions are NOT just republications of earlier editions!
You need to read an earlier edition of the book to get the best of Robert, or read the original transcripts.
The original transcripts can be found here:
http://www.robert-adams.info
and a 1999 version of the book Silence of the Heart can be found here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/60947736/Robert-Adams-Silence-of-the-Heart
And many thanks to those who posted these wonderful resources!
Love to All,
Jo-Ann
The field stands in matchless glory, standing only of ItSelf;
ReplyDeleteIt stands alone beyond 'eternal':
(doesn't even need a shelf).
The ego is a pest, it's true;
as 'ago' is the 'past':
Oh Neo's! One day you will learn,
that 'characters' don't last.
Edji puts your shoes on for you;
shows you how to tie the bow:
yet it's up to you to practice,
lest thorns be all 'you' know.