Self-Knowledge and Self-Realization

AMENDED NEW MATERIAL:


Namaste.

I am Madhurananda from Tiruvannamalai.

Some friend had sent me your website link, and wished me to read it, and give my opinion. But I could not. Also, did not have so much enthusiasm to read. Since few years, I have almost lost any inclination to read, as I can just remain quiet happy with myself. Some how his repeated query made me to read many pages of your website.

I found you are disciple of Robert Adams whom I love very much. In fact it is because of this I have mentioned The Silence of the Heart for further reading in my book Effortless Meditation.  

I liked your experience of Peace. I am sure that it was a genuine experience, and that gave the pull to read many other parts of your website. I have also read many pages of Autobiography of a Jnani. Your disciple Rajeev is very special. In fact, I have written mails to him.

May I ask you few questions for curiosity?: You are in a natural state? You feel that this is the same state that of Sri Ramana where he has established himself irrevocably? Can you say there is no difference between me and Ramana (not in physical sense)? How old are you? Do you have any plans to come to Tiruvannamalai?

Hope you don’t mind for asking these. When I feel people are deeply spiritual, I ignore some formalities and become casual.  

Love, Peace and regards,
Madhurananda

MY REPLY


Dear Madhurananda,


I too do not read anymore. I understand you completely in that.


As to my state, I cannot say whether it is natural, like Ramana's or anything or anyone else's states. All that I can say is that I feel completely at home, and aware that the universe revolves around me and is merely an appearance to me, who lies beyond the appearance. As to what that is I cannot say except THAT is you also.


As to my teaching, it is not me, the words flow through me, such as my dialogues with Raviv. The energy to express arises within me, then passes through me, but I am not touched. You might say my mind is Robert's mind. I didn't know Ramana; I did know Robert.


I am 68 and feel no movement to visit India. I rarely go more than 10 miles from where I live. I have many animals that I take care of and can rarely leave the area for more than a day.


Thank you for your inquire,


Love to you,


Ed


TO ME:


Dear Ed Muzika,

Thanks for your answer and I am very happy to read your words,  that you are at Home and universe revolves around you.

You are at Home 24 hours, all the time includign deep sleep?

I have a deep veneration for you. After all we are all looking forward to go home directly or indirectly.

Love,
Madhurananda




MY REPLY:


Madhu,


Rajiv sent me your email.


Email to Rajiv:

Dear Rajiv,

Namaste.

I agree with whatever you wrote in this mail. Thanks for your sharings. I am in no way under the illusion that 'me' or ego is gone in way, or whatever i am experiencing is Reality in ultimate sense. As long as wish to be at Peace is there, even if it is not expreinced as effort, it cannot be final state. Because of Ramana and U. G.  in no way i can compromise with anything that can happen on manifest level. All these will go one day, and manifest is too brtillte to be taken permanent shelter.  

I am very happy to read that you have gone beyond the realm of ego once for all. Yes, i am very, very happy. There is natural and deep appreciation for the those who have transceded the maya.

For time being i am  being intensely carried away by that where there is no concerputalisation, no hankerings. It pulls me deeply. I am wide awake and undivided in that state. I know for sure it is there where ego can disappear forever. 

I am very happy to be in touch with you. Will come back again some other day,

with Love and regards,

Madhurananda

ED:


You never kill the ego nor does it die. It disappears as you say. You see it never was. It was and is just a collection of thoughts happening to you, who is empty, spacelike, a ghost so to speak. It is not a state to be won, but an experience of the emptiness of all forms and thoughts.


To know this state of identity with the emptiness instead of forms, requires just constant inner reflection and good acquaintance with the Void, and recognition that you stand apart not only from all experiences in the world, but also the void.


So don't hold the illusion that the ego must die. It just never existed except as a collection of thoughts loosely tied together, and with which you identified as a thinker. The thoughts are not yours. They comes from outside of your awareness, appear and then disappear.


Everything appears and disappears, all states, forms, relations, objects, thoughts, ego, but there is a knower of all this. Who is that? Find that.

Dear Ed Muzika,

Some friend sent me your blog link today.  I was a little surprised that you have already put my mails in your blog. Usually, people ask before doing so. However, I am fine with it. I did want to mention that your mail does not contain answers to my questions to you, but to some questions that you might have assumed  on my behalf. That also is quite ok. It is fun too. This world is perfect as it is. It is not an examination paper. So nothing to be bothered. 

ED: I did answer all your questions except about feeling at home in deep sleep. I did answer implicit questions you sent to Rajiv which he sent to me about killing the ego. You, like many in the Ramana tradition, think one who is awakened must be conscious during deep sleep. But that is a property of waking and dream states. If one were conscious or aware as in the waking state, that would not longer be deep sleep.


The deep sleep state is marked by no cognition and no memory. That I exist now or during deep sleep is an intuition or apprehension when the thinking cognitive mind is active. In that state one can "remember" the experience of deep sleep and its qualities. Nisargadatta and Ramesh were quite clear they were not aware during deep sleep.

What you discover is that all of this is part of the illusion of being a body. 


When you no longer think you are a body, you see that all mental states, including the waking state with its bodies and the world, and phenomena come to you and pass over and through you like clouds and do not touch you; you are both beyond them and prior to them. But you are trying to understand from the point of view of being a body, of which you are aware only in the waking mind, the waking dream. Therefore you ask if I am waking conscious aware in deep sleep. What would be the point of that and what would it prove? We are all beyond all the states.

MADHU:

However, I would appreciate if you add this mail of mine too in your blog. In case you are not comfortable in including this mail to you can kindly remove my earlier mails along with your answers.


Ed's Comment: Madhu is uncomfortable having his emails posted that talk about his own states as opposed to where he is asking Rajiv or me about our states. And, he wants to advertise his book as part of his response. If I don't feel comfortable posting this response, he'd like me to take all his posts down.

Here are my views on your reply to me:

You say, ‘you never kill the ego’:  You are right. When we say, ego should be killed, it is only to convey that one should realise that ego never existed. When sages say ego/mind should die, it is never meant as instruction to fight the ego/mind, then destroy it etc. Such approach will create endless mental turmoil in the name of sadhana. Fighting will only strengthen the mind as much as it being superficial and unaware. Mind should be annihilated means all psychological suffering, which can be created only by thoughts (and thoughts alone), should disappear.

We also should be aware of saying: ‘there is no ego, ego never existed’, or ‘ego should die’ etc. All these can be pure play of ego. We can write a big book on this issue of ego, but does it help in our pursuit for happiness or peace?  To tell you honestly I am not the least interested in this kind of verbal descriptions.  Any intellectual person who has read a few books on Advaita can write about these things. Intellectual gymnastics is a sheer waste of time.  If there is anything that touches me deeply, it is insight, and the dedication that one makes to the insight. Of course, if one is a sage, where even the person having insight is absent, then naturally such a one captivates my heart. 

Thanks for your advice on the Sadhana. However, I do wish to add here that I have nothing to ask any one regarding Sadhana. Nor had I   asked Rajiv anything on this front.  Even if I believe some one is a sage, still I do not have any questions to ask as far as meditation, Sadhana etc are concerned.  Out of sheer grace of inner Sadguru, I have discovered the art of being still. I personally feel highest Sadhana is to remain utterly still, where one does not entertain thoughts in anyway, in terms of focusing, concentration etc. If one does not engage in conscious thinking, automatically chattering/unconscious activity of the mind slows down. Then one remains in the state of being composed, undivided and happy. 

As you wrote in your mail, it may be necessary to reflect etc for someone who does not know how to remain in the state of dynamic stillness. However, I do believe as long as one engages the mind in thinking, deep unfathomable Silence remains elusive.

You asked me to find, ‘……..Who is that?’ I feel when one is in the state of deep Peace automatically the answer will dawn. That is how I understand by enquiry.   If some one tells me, being still does not lead to enlightenment, and one has to go on asking 'Who am I?'  I do not care for it. What I do know for certain is that when you have learnt the art of being still, one has learnt the art of being in a state of undivided attention, happy, and at home. Deep dynamic peace starts enveloping you. You will be simply carried away by it. If there is any way to experience supreme Peace, it is in being still. This is my experience and that is enough for me. I also wish to add here that that is the essence of my book Effortless Meditation, Published by Yogi Impressions, Mumbai, 2010, 3rd Edition. 

If I come across some one and says that I am enlightened, I may become curious and ask some questions regarding his state (I am aware word ‘state’ is not the right word for enlightenment, but there is no other appropriate word). However, I do know for certain, that whatever the sage may answer, unless one himself attains the state of a sage fundamental questions of life can never satisfactorily be answered. No one who is ever born in this universe can utterly satisfy the other through verbal answers. On the level of ego, there are no real answers. On the level beyond the ego, questions become meaningless. This is the paradox. 

Peace,

Madhurananda (Madhu)