SENT TO ME:


Sir after the initial I-thought or rather witnessing of thought is over ,a stream of conciousness is maintained for sometime till a few thoughts disturb it too.This the dark void or emptyness we call conciousness which i had earlier termed "me"  ,i see i was identyfying with this earlier taking that to be the subject and thoughts to be the object.But clearly now i can see that the "conciousness" itself is the object.

This is a very important insight is it not? Consciousness is not you. The Void is not you. For years I made a mistake of identifying with the void as me, even though, in a way, I knew better, because I was not one with it. Oneness with the totality of consciousness came and went thousands of times, but was not a steady state.


In Zen, no one was pointing beyond the void. In a sense, the true you who is beyond the Void; what can it be called, or how can it be described? The Void beyond the Void?, or "That which has no qualities, including existence, non-existence or Voidness?" 


There are various Samadhis wherein you become one with objects in consciousness, or even the Void. When you become one with the Void, you become everything-oneness. But Samadhis are temporary.


You cannot do Samadhi on the source. The source is already complete, whole and self-contained and entirely beyond the world of objects and consciousness including the Void.

During the course as i was witnessing the "conciousness" itself many times few floating totally irrelevant thoughts would appear and try disturb the state.Especially when i see only the "conciousness" it goes "Ah i see it" ,a thought .So now i witness the "consciousness" and also the apparent "thought" ,this is not an identification of thought,it just meaningless thought which appear and disaapear.So the "one" witnesses both the consciousness and the thought.My question sir is :

1) What do i do with the thoughts which sprang on their own? I can witness the start of them and then they do dissapear but they appear again disturbing the witnessing of the object "consciousness".Many times i can maintain witnessing both the "consciousness" and thought at the same time.Will these meaningless thoughts completely disappear or no?

Don’t worry about the thoughts. They no longer have any power over you. Just focus on the sense of “I AM,” if you can locate that; otherwise focus on the container of consciousness, the Void-nature interpenetrating all phenomena as the container and background, and then occasionally, try to turn around and catch the subject or witness of the void. This will remind you that you are not an object, a thing within this world.

By being extremely attentive to the field of conciousness ,the thoughts do fade away but they appear again after soemtimes especially when i "have it"
Will these meaningless thoughts completely disappear ever?

The thoughts no longer have power over you. Ignore them. They will always be there randomly as long as you have a brain and body. The brain is sort of like a radio receiver, picking specific thoughts out of the void depending on your past experience and genetics. You consciously have gone beyond thoughts and the power of thought.

The thing about witnessing is that it prevades normal waking stage too, meaning during office work and my walks especialy when i am not engrossed with work, i see the witness of the stream of conciousness and the thoughts which appear and disapear.The witnesser or subject can witness both at the same time,though the thought is powerless, is no more loud ,it is mild ,barely recognisable most of the time,but it still exists nonetheless.

2)I try locating where this subject is ,who is witnessing both but i cant find it anywhere,meaning the witnesser (at the background)cant be traced. The moment i can locate the witnesser ,it will cease to be the subject,it will become another object...sometimes i feel he is at the 3rd eye witnessing the awareness or consciousness and sometimes i feel he is at the heart..You said "watch the watcher" but i cant find him anywhere?

You can’t watch the watcher, so what conclusion can you draw? 

The observer does not exist in this world or any other!  You are beyond existence entirely.  You are not part of the manifest world You are not found within consciousness.  You are the subject, with no existence in this world. You are utterly beyond all properties. This world has nothing to do with you.

This was Robert's message: Don't participate in the world, it has nothing to do with you.
 

I read a few stanza 7 to 8 of the Gita ,i get it but i will move very very slowly with it...perhaps 1 to 2 stanzas a day....

This is perfect. You are now answering the greatest questions posed by all beings through time. Consciousness---God---is revealing everything to you. There is no need to rush.  When I first read Nisargadatta’s “Prior to Consciousness,” I could read at most a page a day, sometimes only a paragraph.  Each sentence was like a hammer blow to my mind.  Even the second and third time.

Where you are, not 1/1,000 has touched. Don’t worry about speed. You are doing well.

Hows Momji doing? Has the condition improved?

She is fine, almost 100% recovered now.

Many Pranams,
 Rajiv

SENT TO ME:

Dear Ed, I have corresponded with you throughout this apparent journey. Which ultimately was not a journey anyplace just a tossing aside of my whole imaginary existence. One question, I have always taken pointers about the eternal now to mean there is nothing that seperates this moment from any other moment, only mental limitations (ie clock time). Lately, however there has been a very strong feeling that more than that, the states of waking, dream, and sleep are not linear, but are actually all happening at once, then the mind comes in and seperates them.  My experience is that ultimately none of the states are real and the mind kinda lines them up in rotation to keep some semblance of life. Is this more mind stuff? 

Yes, your understanding is fairly accurate, although I never got the
feeling that my mind was doing the arranging.  I think what is doing
the arranging lies beyond the mind. None of it is real, but the
imaginary body has its imaginary processes which cause fluctuations in
Consciousness. Yes, all the states appear to be similtaneously present. You might be right that it is the mind that is arranging them, but it would not be your personal mind, but a universal mind which you appear to participate in.

The thoughts that come to you are not really your thoughts either, but
universal thoughts floating in the void that your specific
beingness--body-mind apparatus--seems to pick out and accept as its
own.

It is all quite fascinating, isn’t it?  Nothing is as it seems before penetrating to the deepest level of consciousness and beyond. "Ordinary" people have no idea about all this. If they read this site we'd all be condemned to an asylum. 

SENT TO ME BY DAVID:

"To go all the way, you have to become nothing, useless. You have to let God or your teacher take everything away from you, including your knowledge and understanding, and become nothing."

This is so true.  Surrender means your life is over -- period.  The body may continue to be extremely active in the world, but it's a body of ashes, running around in a phantasmal dream world that never was.  The Jnani may laugh with the laughing and sympathize with the sorrowful, feast in golden hued palaces or live on the street and search through garbage for his meals, raise a family in the suburbs or dwell in a cave as a hermit.  It's all the same.  It's an irrelevant non-experience completely devoid of any meaning or consequence.  It's not the waking state, it's not a dream, it's not Turiya, it's not real, unreal or any state or non-state that language or thought can describe or point to.  It just is ... and it's good.

This sounds absolutely horrible to most people.  They can only conceive of the relative happiness or unhappiness that's tied to identification with the human experience.  They cling to objects which bring them joy, even though they know those same objects will eventually change or go away entirely, causing them great sadness.  They do this because they haven't ever had a glimpse of real, limitless joy, and they don't want to give up the limited happiness they sometimes experience because they don't believe there's anything better.

So, like heroin addicts, people are always looking for their next fix to get them through another day.  Eventually, they get sick of it all.  They decide that happiness laced with poison sucks -- that it's just not worth it.  They don't want to participate in the madness anymore, even if it means giving up the so-called good things.  Then they wake up, and experience the real joy of who they are (i.e., aren't).  This process takes a long time, yet happens in an instant.

Be well Ed.

David

Yesterday's post was about becoming nothing. It is full of concepts such as phenomena, noumena, consciousness, existence and to the void. As such, it is a complete lie. Concepts can never grasp the real.

The point of posting was only a warning not to stop practicing too soon.

To go all the way, you have to become nothing, useless. You have to let God or your teacher take everything away from you, including your knowledge and understanding, and become nothing.

Most seekers will not do this. They want to be something, and unitary consciousness feels like a good place to stop.

Robert was the Good For Nothing Man. That is why he never had more than 50 people come to Satsang while other teachers had thousands. Only those who were willing to give up everything would accept becoming nothing as a goal.

I arrived last night in Phoenix and saw my mom for the first time in two years. She was released from the hospital after an 8-day stay two days ago. She says she feels great. She has a condition that could recur at any time at which could kill her, namely diverticulitis with severe infection and bleeding. At age 92 the doctors refuse to provide survival odds if she had to undergo surgery if the bleeding became too severe.

I brought two books with me in case I had time to begin preparing lessons on Robert's teachings, Prior To Consciousness by Jean Dunn, and Consciousness in the Absolute, also by Jean.

Jean and I had grown to become friends over the years prior to her death. She had a friend in Los Angeles who she visited quite frequently, and whenever she was here, I would see her, usually at a hotel near the Los Angeles airport. We would talk for hours. Our last visit was about two years before she died. She had severe emphysema and the depressurization in the airplane’s cabin nearly killed her. The doctors told her that she could never fly again.

During this visit she gave me a photograph she had taken of Nisargadatta along with little book called "Self Knowledge and Self-Realization" by Maharaj. Both are posted on the http//itisnotreal.com website.

Last night I was glancing through her Consciousness and the Absolute book for the first time in several years. She very carefully explains the essence of Maharaj’s teachings, which is even more carefully elucidated by Nisargadatta himself in the following 4 pages of chapter One.

As a backdrop I wanted to explain that Robert once or twice a private told me that there was no Consciousness, that Consciousness itself was only apparent, it was illusion. This is precisely Maharaj’s teaching. Robert told me that he really couldn't say this public because people would not accept that message. He even joked that people would kill him for that message.

Isn’t this precisely true? Are not most of the spiritual teachers today saying only that your essence is Consciousness, Consciousness is all that there is, and calling that beingness? Their message is that the ego is not real, but Consciousness, beingness, is all that there is and is eternal.

In fact, both Robert and Nisargadatta equivocate in these precise teachings. In fact, in both Robert and in Nisargadatta, you can find a little bit of everything, including talks where Robert will say you are Consciousness itself, beyond the mind and ego. At other times, he would publicly say that you are beyond the Consciousness, you are beyond everything.

On introductory page vii, Jean Dunn states concerning Nisargadatta’s teachings, "Abiding in the "I-Amness" (or Consciousness, which is pure love), that Consciousness itself will give us all the answers. At the present time, Consciousness is what we are, not personal Consciousness, but impersonal universal Consciousness. In the course of time, the Consciousness will show us that we are not even this, but we are that Eternal, Absolute, unborn, undying."

This is very clear. He is saying your essential true nature is beyond Consciousness. You are beyond Consciousness, beyond the I am, beyond the ego, beyond the body. This is precisely Robert's teachings.

On page 4 of the book itself, Maharaj himself states:

"In deep sleep, Consciousness was in a dormant condition; there were no bodies, no concepts. Upon the arrival of this apparently wakeful state, with the arrival of the concept "I am", the love of "I am" woke up. That itself is Maya, illusion."

"Everything is beingness, but I, the Absolute, am not that."

"Consciousness depends on the body; the body depends on the essence of food. It is the Consciousness which is speaking now. If the food essence is not present, the body could not exist. Without the body, would I be able to talk?"

I will elucidate this understanding later as pointed out repeatedly by both Robert and Nisargadatta, but which is only implicit in Ramana's teachings as expressed by his students. Indeed, you can find confirmation of the same truth in Ramana's teachings if you look at the right books. Otherwise, most of his students identifying the absolute with Consciousness, and even more so, the waking Consciousness.

You might say there are three levels of I. There is the level of the I-word and I-concept, with the assumption and belief that there is an and entity that the concept describes, and that the I-word points to.

The second level of I identification, is at the level of identification with mind and Consciousness, which Nisargadatta calls "beingness," or "I-Amness."

Finally, there is the I as the absolute, completely beyond phenomonality, completely unknowable by the mind, without attribute and even without existence. This is what Western idealist philosophers--and Balsekar--calls the Noumenal, and which I might call the other-dimensional. This is the non-manifest, the unmanefest, unborn subject. Even saying that is to ruin it because you are giving names to that about which nothing can be said, because there are no attributes, entirely beyond existence.

On page 4 of Consciousness of the Absolute, Maharaj states regarding the absolute:

"In truth, your state is one of absolute bliss, not this phenomenal state. In that non-phenomenal state you are full of bliss but there is no experience of its presence. In that state there is no trace of misery or and happiness, only unalloyed bliss."

"Everything is beingness, but I, the absolute, am not that."

If you understand this, you will see this is completely beyond the current spiritual teachings that you are Consciousness and everything is Consciousness. Over the next few months and years I want to explain this ever more deeply and completely, as well as clearly outline what it takes to get there.

Once again, it appears Infinity is denying that I ever knew Robert outside of attending to his talks, one hour per week for a short while. These is a long email to this effect sent to Mark Mandell yesterday, which I may post.

To head off trouble, I constructed this page of evidence. The link below is to the first book ever published by or about Robert Adams. It is a photocopy made today of the actual physical book in my possession, so that anyone can see it is an actual book, can see the pages and the publication date.

The Introduction and Robert's biography were written by "Ed Muzika," and the talk itself is copyrighted 1991.  This is one of the first transcripts Kerima and I transcribed.

This should prove that the "body-mind" known as Ed Muzika was associated with Robert in 1991. If you look at the last page, it shows a poem written by Robert during November, 1994. Therefore, I was around at least in November of 1994. The booklet probably came out sometime during early 1995.

http://picasaweb.google.com/edwardmuzika/ThereIsNoSufferingThereIsNoDeath?authkey=Gv1sRgCJGjg4vg1_PE3gE#

A scan of the first edition of Silence of the Heart, vol 2 dated copyrighted in 1992 with transcripts from 1991 is posted at the link below. The Introduction was written by Ed Muzika. There are also acknowledgements of people who either transcribed Robert's talks or helped put the book together. Ed Muzika is mentioned there. Therefore there is documented proof of Ed Muzika's existence at Satsang and putting together the original Silence of the Heart in 1992.

In addition, the book acknowledges people who were attending Satsang at that time. Notice that NICOLE ADAMS is not mentioned in any way as contributing to Satsang or the book. None of Robert's alleged "Thirty year students," such as Mr. Blake Warner, or Robert's daughter are mentioned either. Why do you suppose that is? It because they were never present at Satsang or putting the original Silence of the Heart together, at least from 1989 to 1995. Nicole started coming to Satsang in LA, only during the last few months before they moved to Sedona in 1995.

http://itisnotreal.com/silenceoftheheart.html1.html

The link below is to a phone message left on my answering machine from Nicole, telling me how I had captured Robert perfectly, and I ought to write about him. I don't remember what year this was, but perhaps 1993-94. Nicole and I talked frequently by phone, although she may deny it now. This clip proves she called me at least once.

http://itisnotreal.com/subpage26.html

An article written by Edward Muzika about Robert appearing in the January/February Yoga Journal in 1998. Nicole called the editor and tried to get him to not publish it after the contract was signed. He decided to publish it after radically editing it, and leaving out the photo of Robert I sent him. He told me she threatened to sue Yoga Journal.

http://books.google.com/books?id=JOoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA86&lpg=PA86&dq=ramana+and+robert&source=bl&ots=Xa1vyQerKQ&sig=E-96-_elVfvv4yxzvVlJLfoMmJ0&hl=en&ei=NSTSSsfhAo_-tQOWkLXwCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CCkQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=ramana%20and%20robert&f=false

Photos of Robert with my wife in 1993, and of me with him in Satsang, maybe 1993-94.

http://www.itisnotreal.com/photos.html

Ed Muzika reading the Ashtavakra Gita to Satsang attendees, year unknown:

http://itisnotreal.com/Reading-Ashtavakra-web.jpg 

Robert asking Satsang to sing me Happy Birthday, March 10, 1991 or 1992.

http://itisnotreal.com/Birthday.mp3

I do not understand why Nicole and Infinity decides to do this every few years. Apparently Matthew Brown's movie script wasn't to her liking, and when Marc Mandell wrote to Nicole, he received a long email back saying I didn't exist basically, along with most everyone who ever attended Satsang with Robert.

I am writing this evidence together all in one place so that when the inevitable threats come, I can refer people to this post and its documentation. More evidence will be added to this post as I find it.

In 1968 I had completed Master’s work in Public Management at Western Reserve University in Cleveland. I had gone to Detroit and studied Economics as a Ph.D. candidate at Wayne State University. I had also been working as a demographer for the County Cleveland was located in, and at TALUS, Detroit’s seven year land use study.

I was sick of it. The County didn’t care about accuracy, only lying statistics that supported their claim for federal money. I saw economic theory was mostly empty words and unverifiable concepts—useless. (I am still a Keynsian however.)

I had gotten my BA in philosophy and had always been interested since age 11 in just two topics: ontology and epistemology. That is, what exists and how do we know? Hume and Kant were my Western philosophy mentors, while Ramana and Phillip Kapleau were my Eastern philosophy mentors. I had read Kapleau’s Three Pillars of Zen a half dozen times and Ramana’s “Who Am I” many more times than that. I still had no clue as to the nature of knowledge or existence and was mostly focused on the best way to practice self-inquiry.

               

One day, sitting by a window in an office in Cleveland after having performed population projections for 88 municipalities, and having heard one too many lies, I saw several sailboats floating by on Lake Erie. At that moment, I knew I could not put up with the farce any longer. My life was a waste. The world seemed totally out of whack and most people were in lock step with this out of whackness. I just didn’t fit. So, I decided to chuck everything and leave on a spiritual odyssey.

I took three books: Three Pillars of Zen, the Collected Works of Ramana Maharshi and The Practice of Zen by Garma C.C. Chang. All three books focused on how to practice self-inquiry.

Subsequently I got a job on several huge Great Lakes oar boats carrying taconite (iron ore) between Minnesota and Cleveland. Later, I took off and flew to visit my brother near Tucson and spent several months living in a small tent deep in the Sonoran Desert, all the while trying to figure out how best to practice self-inquiry.

I found this sort of searching useless. There were too many distractions, especially for an untrained, unstable mind. So I moved to Rochester New York to study with Phillip Kapleau, and later, to Mt. Baldy in Southern California to study under Zen master Sasaki Roshi.

It wasn’t until I made the commitment to study under a master that my meditation became focused and revealed results. Kapleau's Zendo was fantastic.

I talk about this in more detail on the website:  http://itisnotreal.com.

Anyway, I practiced self-inquiry off and on for 25 years before I had my first awakening as to a true understanding of ‘I’. I describe this as my shower experience on that website. 

It took me 25 years to fully comprehend what the I-thought meant. (I am more than a bit dimwitted.) What kept me so long is that I spent so much time immersed in the “more real I,” the background consciousness that Langford talks about, that I ignored the I-thought, seeing that the 'I'-thought itself had no substance. But I was still searching for a referent for that I-thought, an entity that the I-thought was associated with. I had thought that some day while immersed in that vast internal emptiness of self-illumined awareness, I would find the true subject. 


Intuitively, even then, I recognized that that consciousness itself was not me either even during and after complete unity experiences with that background consciousness. The emptiness was still an experience.

It was through all those early years of intense practice, sometimes sitting in meditation 10-12 hours a day for years that I experienced all the Kundalini nonsense and all the variable states of consciousness which entirely inhibited true understanding. It is so, so easy to get lost in experiences and understandings.

Finally, a few weeks after Robert Adams left Los Angeles and moved to Sedona I had my first awakening experience, which was to clearly see that the ‘I thought’ had no referent. It did not point to any internal entity. I also saw that the I-thought itself had no substance. It sometimes could be seen to appear like the visual floaters some nearsighted people have, like little transparent clouds floating into and out of emptiness. At other times, the ‘I thought’ (and other thoughts) appeared to be more like focusing mechanisms that aimed attention around in various ways, forming reality by "bending" emptiness into a form. I had focused for years on the emptiness, the awareness that contained everything, and was self-illumined, the light of consciousness, and had ignored the I-thought itself, and failed to see the import of all the preconceptions and false existences contained in the I-thought.


What was different about the shower experience, was that the sense of presence was gone. I was totally empty of presence, of I Am. There was just a vast space of consciousness, with no inner or outer, and no sense of existence of me.

That day in 1995, I finally saw, apprehended, understood, was blown away by the sudden understanding that emptiness was all that there was: emptiness was all that existed.  Eternal, vast space, self-illumined, permeating everything and filled with illusory conceptual forms, and I felt then that I was that. I saw that the I-thought had no referent. There was no I entity that the ‘I thought’ pointed to. There was no Ed Muzika. There was only space, disparate thoughts loosely connected with each other in a network of thought, and the ‘I-thought’ was simply another percept floating around in inner emptiness. No I was there; only emptiness existed and I was that.

Then I saw one other thing deeply: the ‘I-thought’ was what I had considered “subjective,” while all other thoughts were “objective.” That is, I had taken the I-thought as being me, the subject, inside my skin so to speak, and all other thoughts and concepts, such as of world, chair, map, food, other people, were “objective,” and outside of my skin.

When I saw the ‘I-thought’ was unreal, empty, I saw all other words and concepts were also empty. Immediately the world ceased to exist. By that, I mean I understood (Actually, it was more like an experience than an understanding.) nothing in the world that I saw was real; it was created by thought which made an object out of what is, within an unformed matrix of a vast, self-illumined emptiness which was all that is. There was just one emptiness, pervading all, with no inside or outside and I identified with that.

This is exactly Ramana’s initial experience: the “I-thought’ didn’t exist as an entity. It was empty, and with that insight, the whole world is found not to exist as we have always assumed it existed, as real, external objects.

All that there is, is the vast emptiness of consciousness, populated by forms which have no inherent existence except as concepts within consciousness.

However, I was later to see that this was only a partial awakening. 

I also saw the beginning of understanding that that this emptiness--consciousness--also was not me, it was still an object. I was witnessing it. The ‘I thought’ was even less me, because it sprang out of the emptiness-void, and disappeared back into it.

Later I discovered that this understanding acquired in waking consciousness, was only true about the waking consciousness. Ramana had not yet gone far enough in his initial awakening (at least according to how he explained it), just as I had not.

One has to see that the waking consciousness itself—the entirety of existence—is unreal, and that waking consciousness, as are the sleep and dream states, are added onto the deepest sense of me as witness.

You-me, the "Real" you and me, lie entirely beyond consciousness of the world, entirely beyond existence. You might say our true nature lies in an entirely different dimension from all observables, including the world, our minds, our dreams and various states of consciousness, and even the emptiness and the void; all are observables and we are beyond them. We are beyond everything, unborn and unwitting witnesses of all that is, which is merely fantasy stuff, making up the play of consciousness. 


Robert used to start every other Satsang by saying, "You are not real; you do not exist; you are nothing." Everyone laughed at Satsang--except me, I didn't find it funny, but true. Most everyone there had no idea that he was telling them they were beyond existence.

Not only do you need to give up identification with the world and the mind, but also emptiness--the self-illumined void consciousness.

When I announced this understanding to Robert he said I got it. After being with him for seven years I had gotten it. Robert had years earlier told me the real secret, which is that even consciousness does not exist in the sense it had no reality apart from the other-dimensional subject, the witness of all, about whom nothing can be known or said. 

You can only BE the witness, who everyone is already, but do not recognize it because they identify with the body or mind or other elements in consciousness.

This is so momentous of an understanding that it is difficult to convey no matter how hard I try, because I am talking in concepts, or pointers, and no one ever knows another’s subjectivity and conceptual matrix.

Each of us is a pseudo-person in a pseudo reality until we see through that I-thought network/matrix. That matrix can be relatively similar to the matrix of others in so far as each of us has common upbringings. But if education and life experiences are too different, truly understanding another’s world and knowing how to make a transformative impression on that person’s subjectivity is virtually impossible.

My body is now just two years younger than Robert’s when he died. I feel a weight of time pressing. My health is not good at times. I want as much as possible to make Robert and the understanding he gave me more available to the world.

I have noticed that the quality of questions and seekers now contacting me is far more spiritually “mature” than two years ago. There are more and more people who are “getting it” or on the verge of getting it, and by getting it, I mean going all the way beyond consciousness.

Therefore, I have decided to start teaching in earnest, which may or may not mean Satsang in Los Angeles, but definitely does mean I am going to attempt to clear up all doubts of anyone who has them by making a detailed exposition and explanation of at least (initially) three texts that I consider the key to getting it. The three are: The Path of Sri Ramana Maharshi, Part 1 by Sadhu Om and Michael James; Prior to Consciousness, edited by Jean Dunn, and the Nisargadatta Gita by Pradeep Apte. Later I might add some of Robert’s talks.

These expositions will come in the form of lessons covering a chapter or so of each text at a time. Maybe there will be a video post on Facebook or something like it.

Anyway, I’ll start in a couple of weeks. My mother is ill in Phoenix and I’ll be there for a while and will start when I return.

An email sent to me:


Hello,

I am that which knows the coming and going of the state of being. There was this complete fullness so to speak, complete within itself and then spontaneously the rising of the sense of being was known. This occurred during waking up from sleep. I am not able to understand this state.

I know what I am...I am non-conceptual...but now this wants to be captured in words...painful and confusing....words need to conceptulize me...I turn to you for some assistance.

I always recognized my sense of being..aware and unadorned by concepts as the space that I was...but when I now see that that too is rising and setting in what I really am...I am lost for words to understand......

On what is this knowing resting then?



My response:


Every answer would miss the point as all knowledge is about existence, objects, phenomena.

What you are is before existence.

You are uncreated, unborn.



His next email:


I am that which knows the coming and going of the state of being.

My Response: Yes, this is perfect understanding.

There was this complete fullness so to speak, complete within itself and then spontaneously the rising of the sense of being was known. This occurred during waking up from sleep.

Yes, this is how it is usually first seen.

I am not able to understand this state. I know what I am...I am non-conceptual...but now this wants to be captured in words...painful and confusing....words need to conceptulize me...I turn to you for some assistance.


All conceptualizations are only philosophy, empty, transitory, illusion. You must learn how to accept knowing nothing.

I always recognized my sense of being..aware and unadorned by concepts as the space that I was...but when I now see that that too is rising and setting in what I really am...I am lost for words to understand......

Don't you see? What you are is entirely beyond the mind and cannot be captured in words or concepts. There is no need to understand; just be.


New email:


The self or whatever it is..is so un-contrived...spontaneous and self sufficient...that is seen in ordinary moments of just simple being.

No words needed to be...simply are.

When these various states or experiences occur, there is an attempt to understand it..when the experience itself is not requiring that.. :) it also just is... and you have so correctly stated..all explanations are only about the state of existence...and therefore the correct answer in all respects is that ..you are unborn...that shuts any more concept building.

Ed..the clarity that these words you have written, also cannot be captured in words...i can only say..thank you!

Hi Ed, I recently fall caught in moments of purest Silence/Nothingness. It is impossible to tell something about it. After them I realize nothing exists; everything one can think or imagine is absolutely nonexistent. A feeling of immensurable peace and sense of freedom rises. Silence/Nothingness comes suddenly, unforeseeably; for example, in a moment of relaxation after a bustling day. I don’t know what to do about it. I would have this Silence/Nothingness forever, I feel it is liberation, but I seem the more I try to do--even a too zealous formal practice--the worse the result is. I don’t know how to approach to it. Love, S

Don't rush. Relax. Just sit in silence as often as you can in awareness of silence or in awareness of your sense of presence. But don't get anxious or try to speed it up.

I took down my Tolle rant because I don't know what I am talking about. I have not read him or any of the other neo-Advaitins, and therefore don't know what I am talking about. Robert was wiser than I and never talked about other teachers.


My point though was you hardly ever make any progress by reading or thinking. Both engage the discursive mind leading to endless internal and external dialogues. 


Isn't it true we read because we lack confidence in our own ability to find and explicate truth? Is it not true we mostly read to confirm what we already think we know? Isn't true that when we read and think, we cannot see ourselves because the focus of awareness is on concepts?


A large part of our spiritual education is to develop self-confidence in our own ability to find our own truth by looking within, and not reading books to tell us what we should be finding there. You have to develop a boldness where you set off on your own to find the truth of your being.


Michael Langford, for all the faults of his book, correctly points out the need to slow the mind down and focus on a very few books to read, and to read them slowly and repetitively. He is absolutely correct. Better would be not to read at all, but to introspect, observe your consciousness, observe awareness and keep quiet.


In a Zen monastery, there is absolutely no talking during training periods. Ramana was silent for many years. Being with Robert was like being with silence all the time. Reading a book or attending a lecture, or writing poetry is anti-silence.


Develop your ability to abide in your own thoughtless awareness. Gradually you will develop an ability to remain with yourself and be confident of what your self-investigations are revealing. Gradually you will become comfortable not even articulating the new understandings that arise in you because you will recognize those understandings are illusory, tentative, passing, concepts only, and you can't capture the absolute in concepts. You can only rest peacefully in yourself.


Limit your reading to the resources I mention on the itisnotreal.com website. You might even want to limit your reading to two or three books, such as the Path of Sri Ramana, Part I, the Nisargadatta Gita, possibly Prior to Consciousness to blow your mind, or Langford's book.


You need to go deep into yourself, not marvel at the clear expositions of others that merely reinforce your present concepts which means there is no "progress." You are just rearranging deck chairs.


Please, don't waste your life entertaining spiritual concepts or visiting many teachers. Go deep within yourself; observe yourself; observe the I Am if you can isolate that sense of presence that is I Am. Be comfortable with the void-like emptiness. Become friends with the inner light of consciousness. Become aware of the emptiness that contains all. Become aware of the witnessing process. Soon you will see that reading and thinking take you away from your inner peace.

Hi Ed,

I just stumbled onto your site via “stumble”. I picked up a book at the local library called  “The power of now”, thinking it was sort of popular science. I had never read a “spiritual” book in my life, less even given the subject any thought whatsoever. Anyway, I seem to know what the guy is going on about somehow. I try “getting in touch with my body”, the first time I ever tried to “meditate” and have some very profound experiences. Anyway after that all my fear and anxiety seem to have fallen away. I’m not skipping around in some sort of spiritual bliss or anything, I just sort of feel nothing matters, that I know/feel something ( that I can’t explain ) that everything is  alright, a contentment. 

So, I join this Eckhart Tolle web site, now I just don’t want to sound like a spiritual crazy  but most of what’s being talked about I feel is not right. I don’t know how or why I know this but I start writing on these threads about shit I know nothing about and I’m thinking after, “what are you doing, writing all this stuff about awakening blah blah” I bump into your site and realize I’ve been writing about things I just read this morning. About stopping thinking (or how you can’t), the imaginary universe and body, lots of stuff I have absolutely no idea about. I have been writing stuff recommending people do this or that “en contra” to Tolle’s teaching, mad, what do I know? 

I like Tolle’s teachings but the more I listen the more I just think he’s skirting around the edge of something, flowery roundabouts, poetic musings. I can’t put my finger on it but I just know he doesn’t have what I want. 

Is it possible to know things, you don’t consciously know? I couldn’t talk for 1 minute about self-realization, but I “know” or feel a lot about it. Am I deluded, an over active ego? Maybe, maybe that is it! I wasn’t going to write about my “Meditation” experience because I feel such a fraud amongst all the knowledgeable and savvy people on the internet articulating their experiences......like you.....talking about lots of different meditation techniques etc.

Well anyway, It was beautiful but also frightening at the same time ( or in different phases) I felt myself going inside myself in stages. I got something like a strong electric shock from my toes right through my head each time. Not a nice sensation and each time I had to stop myself coming “awake” out of the whole thing. My body jerked each time, it was a very strong sensation. I could hear the traffic outside so I knew I wasn’t asleep. Basically I just felt like an atom shining in space at the end. I felt like everything had fallen away from me but I was enveloped in (I don’t know what ) I can only say that nothing mattered anymore. I was free (no wonder people sound pretentious writing about this stuff!)

I feel I am at the crossroads of something, what should I do?

M.

Hi M,

I have been away for a while. My mom was very ill--still is--and I am

going back and forth between LA and  Phoenix and Sedona and will be doing so through November. I hope to see Mary Skene in a few days, Robert’s left hand woman for many years.

My intuition is that you are correct about Tolle and most of the neo-advaitins. They have got a tip of the tongue understanding, but no deeper. I admit I have not read any of them, so I am speaking from ignorance. I rarely read anything in the area of spirituality, and if I do, it is usually Robert, Ramana, Nisargadatta, or a few of the old Advaita scriptures like the Rhibu Gita.

I admit my knowledge of the neo Advaitins comes from Facebook, email questions, watching a video, etc., but I have never got the impression that any of them actually have practiced self-inquiry as taught by Ramana, Nisragadatta, or Robert, or just went to the teachings of no self and stopped there.

Most of them quote Nisargadatta and read he practiced self inquiry by contemplating “I Am” for three years, which, by the way, is an amazingly short time, yet few if any talk about the need for practice.

Ramesh Balsekar for example, never talks about practice,and accepts the concept that enlightenment is about the understanding only that there is no I or self. They glomb onto that understanding and attempt to deepen it by just holding onto that understanding. But there is far, far more than this to Advaita.

The origin of the discovery of No I is an experience of the emptiness of all concepts and forms. It is a state that generates an understanding. Without experiencing that state, the understanding is only concept with no ability to actually change you. You just have new concepts. I describe that state on the http://itisnotreal.com website. 

You have to go further and "apperceive" that that state itself is observed by something that is beyond that state, and YOU are THAT. The neo Advaitins stop with an acceptance of waking consciousness and the sense of presence as the final understanding, or experience, and equate that with "enlightenment."

They also love to repeat there is no enlightenment because there is no I or self to be enlightened, but again, this is only concept and only an apparent contradiction. 

I think the problem may have started when they read about Ramana's initial enlightenment experience, where he pretended to be dead and concluded that since he was still aware of his waking consciousness, that the waking consciousness was ultimate, beyond which there was no further understanding or experience. Just realize and bathe in the sense of presence.

They fail to realize that what Ramana actually did was to glimpse that consciousness and all that is contains, is different from the body, even though there would be no waking consciousness without a body, nor dream or deep sleep either. His initial awakening would be described in Zen as Kensho--the initial awakening or enlightenment experience.

He also apparently realized there was no object that the word “I” referred to or anyone in charge of his body and mind. He, as observer, was just along for the ride. He stopped using his name, but still spoke of God, his father, ruler of all, more or less as the "other," or God, or Arunachala. There was still duality.

I am not sure he had become aware at that time that he was the only one, the Witness of all, or that the world itself was illusion, and waking consciousness was illusion.

Ramana then spent years deepening his understanding, penetrating through the dream and deep sleep states also, until all consciousness runs out and you are left with the mysterious Witness of all that is in consciousness. All the states of consciousness, all the four outer bodies of yoga are just superimpositions on YOU, the Witness of all. Anything you say about that ultimate state or Witness is absolutely a lie. Nothing can be known. It is not an object. It does not have existence as an object, but it does as a subject which is an ultimate existence as opposed to a conditional existence.

The stories of Ramana's sadhana (practice) during the next  ten or fifteen years are legion, sitting in Samadhi for weeks at a time until insects burrowed into his legs causing infections and bleeding that stuck him to the floor of the temple. They talk of samadhis where he was beyond the world for days and weeks at a time. 

I never hear about the new gurus spending days and weeks in silent meditation and Samadhi.

As Robert said, "Everyone wants to get in on the act." No one wants to

be a student.  I am just amazed by all the web teachers and what they say.

I feel I am at the crossroads of something, what should I do?

M., I can only suggest doing more of the same. Since you wrote 3

weeks ago, I assume you are doing more of the same. Introspect. Try to find the source of your “presence,” your sense of existence. If that does not work, just sit in the totality of the emptiness of your consciousness—the world of your waking experience.

Whatever you experience, know that it is temporary and any understanding gleaned is also temporary.

The hardest gate to go through is knowing nothing and being comfortable knowing nothing, being a nobody. None of the current gurus seem comfortable knowing nothing or being nobody. They have to be somebody with busy minds, busy with quotes, poetry, etc., even about knowing nothing. Robert used to say, the great ones, you never hear about.

They just can't let go and be nobody.

Just keep going.

This one is rare:

> Sir after the initial period of objectless concentration ,awareness is
> automatically turned within.The body after a few breathing pranayamas isnt
> felt at all.The body conciousness feels like a corpse,something like
> that.The body is there but the awareness is within.I become aware of the
> movement of thoughts,how they appear and how they drop.Many times during
> witness, the thoughts are not there and i reach a stage of sort of void or
> emptyness.At that time i observe an expansion happenning at the third
> eye...a nothingness prevails ,so then there is no object as such except that
> nothingness.Also i feel during witness stage there is another witness
> watching the witnessing ,as thoughts appear and identification starts ,that
> another witness is always watching whether witnessing is happenning or no
> and brings back to witnessing again....Its sort of complicated to express
> but it is something like that.Is this the "subject" you are referring too?
> Actually the period of nothingness or void is too short,the mind interferes
> and by witnessing it i reach a thoughless state for sometime till mind
> interfers again.All this while after the body conciousness is long
> lost,there is one more "witness" who is observing whether the witnessing is
> happening or no.yes something like that....


Yes, this is perfect understanding. Eventually there will only be one
witness. One of the witnesses is merely the mind commenting on the
introspection process.

You might, at this time, instead of trying to follow "I AM"
introspection, just try to witness the witness. Watch the watcher.

> I wanted to tell you also that yesterday i was in the "glimpse" for a full
> day after my dhyaan...I have already described what it is in that state in
> my earlier mail.There is much to go further you say but within and outside
> of me i feel this is it, as i feel a growing connection with everything
> around me ,just about everything.You said it is a form of samadhi,previous
> to you my kriya Guru had termed it as sarvikalpa samadhi.But these again are
> concepts ,but just curious what kind of samadhi you would define this
> as.sheer curiosity.

What you call the glimpse is the absence of the thinking process. You
are intently and completely aware without the chattering mind being
engaged. But in the glimpse you are not aware that all that out there
in the world is only your mind creation and is not real.

I have no names for the various samadhis. As you say, they are just
names and of no import. Even the experience of the various samadhis is
not important. In fact, nothing is important, except, to me, to live
as a kind and just man helping others, being a shepherd for all
physically and morally. You are your brother's keeper. All the rest is
only philosophy and illusion.

You are very close to finishing your self-exploration. Therefore I
urge you to ripen your understanding and peace, and care for others.

You are doing very well...

Ed

Hello Edji, My name is Rajiv K and i reside in mumbai,India. > I visited your blog and felt i write to you a few things.I write to one who > not only is a disciple of the great Robert Adams but also to the one who > himself is aware of "what is",probably the truth as it is.


I know its > impossible to correctly describe that state in words and there is no way > you,i or anyone can yet i feel inclined to communicate,share and learn from > you what you feel as regards the marvelous thing we call "consciousness" or > "truth" or watever names we can call it by... > > The past: > 


My "journey" began 13 yrs ago when i was first initiated in kriya through > YSS/SRF in mumbai.I had a very scary OBE expereince then and each time i > would sit i would be pulled in a dark tunnel speeding in high intensity.That > time i was just practicing a techinque called Hong-sau.Anyways YSS asked me > to discontinue the use of hong-sau and i felt that time they were least > bothered about anything except "surrender" to the Guru.Dissatisfied with the > response i seeked looking for a personal Guru who could help me with my > expereinces and satisfy all my deep spiritual longings. > 


After much seeking and looking and initiated a few more times with other > gurus i finally found the Guru my heart approved of.He was a traditional > Guru and very jovial person at the same time.He got me initiated in higher > kriyas including kechari mudra which supposedly is of immense importance to > expereince higher levels of consciousness.I personally dont feel any of my > expereinces would have been much different without kechari,but this is my > personal feeling.


During my practices in kriya i had various "expereinces" > like OBE,Lucid dreams,heightened awareness,even kevali kumbhak (stoppage of > breath automatically for a few seconds which gave immense joy all over each > cell of my body) etc etc...But somehow i always felt all this is very > delusionary as i set out to "achieve" more and more of this joy and > bliss,more and more of these expereinces like OBEs.I felt inwardly i was > seeking too much and my heart and mind was still not in rest except a few > occasions > when i expereinced a thoughtless state...rest of the time i was busy > seeking,making whole loads of images of Guru kripas and dreams of Gurus and > Babaji.


I felt inwardly i was getting deeper and deeper into a bundle of > various conditionnings and beliefs imposed by other chelas who beleived the > same.I felt there is something hugely amiss here either in my practice or in > my understanding....All i was awaiting for was to accumulate many > expereinces not realsiing that maybe the mind itself was creating them for > me... > > The in-between: > 


On realizing that probably the biggest barrier are my own beliefs and > conditioning's i just couldnt keep going with my kriyas.The very > technique,the very teachings i felt were becoming a sort of barrier to > expereincing truth as it is for the mind was beginning to reach "somewhere" > rather than just "being".I then decided that i shall observe ,simply observe > what is going on within and outside of me.I realised that the bliss,peace > and thoughtless state returned even without kriya.


The mere "observation" > resulted in this.And so i can carry on like this even in waking stage and > not only during kriya.All concepts like God,blessings,liberation,beliefs > dropped on carefull observation. > > The "Present" > I carry on trying to witness every thoughts,emotions than arise in my > mind.I realize that my awareness is growing as i start giving utmost > attention to everything happenning within and outside of me.There are > glimpses of joy and utmost bliss which prevails around me.


During that time > my state is like a man drunk but with extreme and heightened attention.I > feel drunk with immense awareness.There is nothing i like to achieve,gain or > be.I am just "it" .This is perhaps just "being".I observe everything so > clearly ,so bright ,the colors around me are much brighter than usual and > sparkle and dance around me.During that "glimpse" (as i call it) the > thoughts seem rare, and even if they arise i observe them clearly as they > come and go.


There is nothing to achieve,be or go anywhere.Everything around > looks so magical and pure like i am observing something new for the very > first time.There is no need of Guru or any God during that state.Everything > melts. > > The question > 


Edji i call the above a glimpse becoz it is not in continuity,it lasts for > perhaps 2 to 3 hours a day mostly during the evening time.I cant say i can > create the glimpse for it happens on its own...And disappears on its > own.Perhaps in the evening i dont have to worry much about my work or maybe > there is some other reason.The "glimpse" has happened to me also during the > office hours but its rare...Sometimes i feel the desire to be in that > glimpse forever too could be an obstacle to be it,maybe.Pls write back your > observations and suggestions.I really need some guidance on this.I have > written down best i could in words. > > Many regards and Pranams, > R

What you are experiencing is due to the intensity of your practice. The barrier-creating chattering mind has stopped, and you have pure perception. If you could dwell in this state all the time, that is one form of samadhi. But that "first time" world is still illusion, experience added onto you.


If you can formalize your meditation and sit in Padmaasana for about 45 minutes in the morning, you should be able to generate it at will as well as pure oneness states. Most probably this will disappear over time. It is the final state for some types of yogis, such as Krishnamurti, etc. Why don't you go with it and see where it takes you?  


This is not classic advaita though. In Advaita you focus attention not on everything, but attempt to concentrate on the subject, the sense of I. Advaita unfortunately is heavy with cognitive elements. Don't do that as yet though. Continue to go as you are doing but add at least one 45 minute session sitting facing a wall with eyes closed or half open. Sit as solidly as possible. Tell me what happens.  


Ed

Hi Ed

I have been in and out of it lately...yesterday the mind flow stopped again.
I don't usually question myself...I just rest in silence without trying to understand
what's happening...but yesterday something became clear.

There is no difference between "waking", "dreaming" or "sleeping"...
they are passing states. Maybe the mind flow is responsible for them but I'm not sure and
I'm not really keen to mentally investigate it...there is just a feeling of being separate from them.

With the "waking" and "dreaming" state space appears...
in this space the feeling of "me" as a separate entity could appear ( if It does I'm aware of it..
I can see it arising and subsiding...even now that It is really weak).
Without a feeling of "me" space prevails...everything is in it...
there are no separate entities...just one space...a passing show that goes by itself...there is no control over it.
But this space is false...it comes and goes...everything in it is false.
The action of writing this email to you is just an appearance in this moment...nothing is really happening.

The funny thing is that during the last months I often thought about how I should conduct my life..
what was right and what was wrong. But It is clear now that there is nobody doing anything...
wrong and right are just concepts...things can appear in different ways but nothing is really happening.
And all this happens (or not happens) just in two states....the "waking" or "dreaming" state...
and when these states subside everything in it disappears.

I feel humbled buy realizing it and feel love but what difference can make these passing feelings
in a false reality? love and hate are worth the same...they are worth nothing.
I don't know what will happen...for the moment the mind is calm and a peaceful feeling prevails.

thank you
M.



This is very good. You glimpse not only are objects abd self in the waking and dream state unreal, but the states themselves are unreal.


Next you have to turn towards understanding who or what you are in the deep sleep and before birth states.


Ed