Hi Ed,
What is so crystal clear about Robert than one can't pick up on as well through the writings, is his incredible compassion. There is not an inkling of personal judgment in his responses to the questioners, a clear compassion.
S.
Realizing the Manifest Self--the Life Force permeating our humanity--and the Unmanifest source from which it arises.
02 April 2009
30 March 2009
Hi Ed,
I have been seeking for over 30 years but the last 9 were more (or less) intensive.
Many teachers say Consciousness (turya, Brahman, I-Amness, etc,) is the final "goal". Some however say there is that which is beyond Consciousness which is the Absolute Reality. In fact Siddharameshwar calls Brahman the MahaMaya. It is the original illusion. The title of Jean Dunn's transcriptions, both titles approved by Nisargadatta: "Prior to Consciousness" and "Consciousness and the Absolute" speak to the point.
Consciousness may be a step towards realization of the Absolute, but as tourists say about the city of my birth, NYC., it's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
I now have copies in a binding of the talks by Robert Adams from your site. Will take it with me on my upcoming trip. Have already read the 1st two. Also the recording of him "Awareness of Consciousness", I have listened to it several times. Funny though, this morning was the first time all of it got through. Thank you for making these available.
Best wishes, R.
To R:
Re Maha Maha.
Most of the famous gurus have metaphysics associated with their
"school." Ramana has Turiya and Turiyatta as does Nisargadatta. Lots of Buddhist schools have their own ontology and epistemology, while Zen more or less has none.
Both Krishnamurtis talk of unity consciousness and accept consciousness as a brain phenomena, while the I and you disappear in unity consciousness. They don’t go far from that.
Robert didn't really have any ontolohy. He'd mention them to entertain people--like me, and then at the end of the talk admit he was pulling their leg.
You have to take all if this with a grain of salt. Lot's of people
describe almost exactly the same experience in very different ways, and probably more often, very different experiences in similar ways.
As long as words are used to communicate, we never know what another experiences. Music, I think, better conveys the experience of another without too much distortion, but sucks at conveying ontology.
Therefore, how can you trust what anyone says that their experience means?
That is why I just advise people to practice self-inquiry and find their own experience and truth which they can then express as their message.
Therefore too, I recommend listening to sacred music. I think those who get it, all get more or less the same experience.
Ed
I have been seeking for over 30 years but the last 9 were more (or less) intensive.
Many teachers say Consciousness (turya, Brahman, I-Amness, etc,) is the final "goal". Some however say there is that which is beyond Consciousness which is the Absolute Reality. In fact Siddharameshwar calls Brahman the MahaMaya. It is the original illusion. The title of Jean Dunn's transcriptions, both titles approved by Nisargadatta: "Prior to Consciousness" and "Consciousness and the Absolute" speak to the point.
Consciousness may be a step towards realization of the Absolute, but as tourists say about the city of my birth, NYC., it's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
I now have copies in a binding of the talks by Robert Adams from your site. Will take it with me on my upcoming trip. Have already read the 1st two. Also the recording of him "Awareness of Consciousness", I have listened to it several times. Funny though, this morning was the first time all of it got through. Thank you for making these available.
Best wishes, R.
To R:
Re Maha Maha.
Most of the famous gurus have metaphysics associated with their
"school." Ramana has Turiya and Turiyatta as does Nisargadatta. Lots of Buddhist schools have their own ontology and epistemology, while Zen more or less has none.
Both Krishnamurtis talk of unity consciousness and accept consciousness as a brain phenomena, while the I and you disappear in unity consciousness. They don’t go far from that.
Robert didn't really have any ontolohy. He'd mention them to entertain people--like me, and then at the end of the talk admit he was pulling their leg.
You have to take all if this with a grain of salt. Lot's of people
describe almost exactly the same experience in very different ways, and probably more often, very different experiences in similar ways.
As long as words are used to communicate, we never know what another experiences. Music, I think, better conveys the experience of another without too much distortion, but sucks at conveying ontology.
Therefore, how can you trust what anyone says that their experience means?
That is why I just advise people to practice self-inquiry and find their own experience and truth which they can then express as their message.
Therefore too, I recommend listening to sacred music. I think those who get it, all get more or less the same experience.
Ed
23 March 2009
A Reader Questions:
Dear Ed, it was recommended to me by a friend that I contact you with a few questions that I have. I am a 21 year old University of XXXX student majoring in Classics. I am having difficulty understanding the definition of existence in Mind 4 of the Blue website. I understand that since the world is defined by the mind's perception that it has no foundation in reality because thoughts are not real and do not exist. According to the definition of existence provided on the blue website there is nothing that exists because there is nothing that is tangible, and there is nothing that is tangible because perception defines tangibility, and perception is simply a thought, and thoughts are not tangible so they do not exist. This is where I stumble. The suggestion made by this definition that thought and perception are one in the same is true on a biological level. Chemical and electrical signals in the brain and body work to affect thought and perception in a similar manner, but I wonder if it might be incorrect to suggest that sensory perception and thought are no different. In addition it seems to me that the given definition of existence is too narrow. When I hear the word exist I assume it is referring to something that "is," or rather something that "is not a lack of something," although making nothing the subject of a sentence, and making nothing into something that I can refer to seems paradoxical. I understand that what is and what is not depends solely on my perception of it and in that way there is nothing without the mind's perception. Is it possible that the only way to understand non-existence is that non-existence is that which the mind cannot fathom or perceive, and by that definition it is impossible to ever reach a higher state of awareness? And if that were true might it also be true that enlightenment is just another mind state.
p.s. I am aware that I use the word "I" a lot, and I realize the implications of this. But I am not sure how to convey through speech what "I" am thinking.
Thank you for taking the time to consider my ramblings.
Dear YYYYYYYY
For future correspondence can you use a larger type, such as 12-14 pts and break up your questions into separate paragraphs to make it easier for this old mind to follow?
I am not defining thought or the world there. I am pointing out my understanding.
To use an analogy, thought is like a mass that distorts awareness, grabs hold of it, and creates a condition, such as an apparent object. Without the thought to give the formless awareness form, there would no form, no objects, no external world.
When the thoughts are no longer identified with through practice, they lose the ability to create forms including objects. Then they are seen to be unreal compared to the “seer” who is You.
You have the primary existence, all else is secondary to you, impermanent, having no substance. It is a passing imaginal form. You, as a person are as nothing in this scheme, just a passing form.
In any event, this is not a definition. Definitions are between words and concepts. It is more like a description which binds the world to concepts.
Ultimately awareness, the real, whatever you call it, cannot be described or defined. You need to get beyond this bottleneck of trying to understand with words, anything. The mind will never give you freedom. To go free you need to lose your mind.
03 March 2009
Communicating with a Teacher
I get several emails everyday form people asking directions about their practice and often with practices far from what I have recommended or practiced myself. These questions are very difficult to answer because I am not in their skin nor vice versa. We communicate through concepts, words and images, yet there is no common point "Rosetta Stone" whereby I can know that what you mean by "red" is the same as what I mean, or that your experience of "emptiness" or "I Am" is the same as mine was. We just all assume there is some correspondence, and in most instances things seem to work out as if there had been communication.
Therefore when you send a description, unless it is very detailed and dovetails into my own experiential progression on the path, I really can't tell where you are because you are still lost in what I call "Imaginal Space," the inner conceptualizing and imaging processes that fill our inner and outer sense of emptiness with a non-existent world of name, substance and form. That emptiness becomes polluted by the constant mentation/imaging processes.
The trick is to end imaginal space and its contents altogether. The I Am is the core component that arranges and orders that imaginal space giving the world its form and you your apparent body/mind.
But many of the questions I get are on how to proceed to enlightenment from some point inside of the questioner's imaginal space meditation experiences, which are all illusory. It is almost like asking, "In which direction do I need to walk in order to get into the Fifth Dimension?" Well, there is no Fifth Dimension from where you are, there will only be continuity of the illusion unless you want to wake up.
Meditation can only get you to an experience of a very refined emptiness such as the Clear Light Void I have talked about. The I Am feeling, imagining and thinking are in abeyance, and a feeling of the empty and void nature of things is strong.
This is very subtle and peaceful, but is not enlightenment which is a total blowing out of the imaginal space and its contents.
Nothing can show you the way to this true void, true emptiness; it has to happen to you. The best you can do is to prepare the way, that is, practice. Awakening becomes the focus of your attention.
Right now for the sake of communication, using a specific variety of Self-Inquiry which I feel is both rapid and least likely to cause you to go astray, I ask you to download Pradeep's "Nisragdatta Gita" from the Resource page. Print it out and put it in a 3 ring binder. Read 4-5 paragraphs every morning and "ponder" the meaning. Correct meditation then can be almost automatic.
I like his form because there is less likelyhood of getting lost compared practicing awareness watching awareness, or trying to follow the I-thought to its source.
As long as you can feel your sense of existence, you will have a guide. But asking yourself, "Who am I?, and waiting, or sitting trying to be aware of awareness, can lead to losing interest, getting lost, and puts an unnecessary emphasis on void-like or emptiness meditations. I know, because I did this meditation for many years.
After you do this a few weeks, then send questions and we will be a little bit "closer" to being on the same page.
Therefore when you send a description, unless it is very detailed and dovetails into my own experiential progression on the path, I really can't tell where you are because you are still lost in what I call "Imaginal Space," the inner conceptualizing and imaging processes that fill our inner and outer sense of emptiness with a non-existent world of name, substance and form. That emptiness becomes polluted by the constant mentation/imaging processes.
The trick is to end imaginal space and its contents altogether. The I Am is the core component that arranges and orders that imaginal space giving the world its form and you your apparent body/mind.
But many of the questions I get are on how to proceed to enlightenment from some point inside of the questioner's imaginal space meditation experiences, which are all illusory. It is almost like asking, "In which direction do I need to walk in order to get into the Fifth Dimension?" Well, there is no Fifth Dimension from where you are, there will only be continuity of the illusion unless you want to wake up.
Meditation can only get you to an experience of a very refined emptiness such as the Clear Light Void I have talked about. The I Am feeling, imagining and thinking are in abeyance, and a feeling of the empty and void nature of things is strong.
This is very subtle and peaceful, but is not enlightenment which is a total blowing out of the imaginal space and its contents.
Nothing can show you the way to this true void, true emptiness; it has to happen to you. The best you can do is to prepare the way, that is, practice. Awakening becomes the focus of your attention.
Right now for the sake of communication, using a specific variety of Self-Inquiry which I feel is both rapid and least likely to cause you to go astray, I ask you to download Pradeep's "Nisragdatta Gita" from the Resource page. Print it out and put it in a 3 ring binder. Read 4-5 paragraphs every morning and "ponder" the meaning. Correct meditation then can be almost automatic.
I like his form because there is less likelyhood of getting lost compared practicing awareness watching awareness, or trying to follow the I-thought to its source.
As long as you can feel your sense of existence, you will have a guide. But asking yourself, "Who am I?, and waiting, or sitting trying to be aware of awareness, can lead to losing interest, getting lost, and puts an unnecessary emphasis on void-like or emptiness meditations. I know, because I did this meditation for many years.
After you do this a few weeks, then send questions and we will be a little bit "closer" to being on the same page.
16 February 2009
The Reader Loses It Then Gets It Back Again
READER:
Hi again Ed, I know that you want me to dwell in emptiness, in true existence as much as possible. But last night, I was reading Robert's Collected Works and would appreciate your clarification if it's alright. If I shouldn't even be asking this, I understand. It relates to, but is also different from the original question I asked you about deep sleep.
Robert states: "Once you go to sleep, the world no longer exists for you and you are is a state of dreamless sleep. The state of dreamless sleep is like jnana, self-realization, except you have consciousness. But there is no denying that you exist, for when you wake up you say, "I slept well." The state of dreamless sleep is like a person who died. It gives you an idea of what happens to you when you die, so to speak....So the first state of consciousness is dreamless sleep, and you exist in dreamless sleep."
This does not feel true for me as there are often times in which I am not aware that I had been sleeping (only the clock tells me) and so Robert's statement does not for me, "confirm" my existence, my undying consciousness. In fact, deep sleep seems to be the exception to the recognition that I exist. I do realize that my question is also rooted in an egoic fear, in old family history, but it snags me.
In your own writings you say: "Even the deep sleep state is a state of consciousness. The brain, mind and body are shut down during that ‘time’. All is forgotten because remembering requires mind. Mind is shut down during deep sleep as is the brain. Both are forgotten. But an underlying tone of awareness continues. Many people after some practice "feel" the presence of the sleep state even when awake. YOU are that which can simultaneously be aware of both waking and sleeping, even though you are primarily the waking state at the time.....There is no argument that can prove there is an observing consciousness or existence in sleep. All arguments that there is consciousness in sleep depend on argumentation and inference. They try to convince the reader that this is their direct experience by inference. This is a weakness of all Jnani-style expositions: he mystery of the deep sleep state..."
What you write is true, isn't it? Unborn existence or awareness cannot be confirmed in deep sleep, the one state free of mind. Awareness in deep sleep appears to have been unquestionably true for Robert as an exception. Still any clarification would again be helpful.
ANSWER:
Ahh, you lost it. That is to be expected.
Robert was repeating the standard Jnana-Advaita argument that just does not wash. It is a ridiculous argument.
BUT, you are still looking for a waking-type of awareness in deep sleep. It won't happen. Ever.
The question again comes from a place of identification with waking consciousness as the only "real" consciousness.
However, the waking consciousness is an artifact of having a body and depends on the state of the body. It is weak, feeble and temporary. Ditto dream sleep.
Dream sleep is the imaginal world weakly illuminated by waking consciousness.
The real argument is that you are That which is aware of the coming and going of waking consciousness.
The analogy I used was a candle flame. The flame itself, if conscious, would not be aware of its non-existence. Only the wick and the observer would be aware of the coming and going of the flame.
So too with you. You are aware you are aware now, and you are also aware you will not be aware 12 hours from now.
That you is like the wick or the observer.
You can argue that it is only the conscious mind that knows it will not be a few hours hence and not something beyond, yet, when you wake up and when you go to sleep you do watch the coming and going of sleep. It is not the waking mind that observes that, it is the underlying consciousness associated with having an alive body, Turiya.
It is this recognition that you see the coming and going that creates the knowledge you are beyond all this. You can never see That which is beyond it, but you become rooted in it with that knowledge.
I go one step further than most Advaita. Most take that emptiness and Void they perceive to be that out of which the world and body arise, but the Void is merely another percept. You perceive it. You are beyond by having no property at all, not even void or space, just as when you sleep.
That is, without a body you are nothing at all, not even sentient. You are the witness of all sentience including waking consciousness.
I never asked Robert if he had a waking consciousness with memory at night. I think if I were to ask him, he would say he did not.
You have to lose hold of waking consciousness as being the measure of all existence. It is not.
READER:
Wow Ed, Thank you for your response. Everything you say is extremely clear. Formless, aware presence "returned". No qualities or properties here, not a mark. This reality is so real, yet of nothing. Also today, I directly saw the made-up quality of my fear. So made up! I heard that people laugh when seeing this, but I never did. Today though, the seriousness with which I had taken this storybook sense of reality made me laugh. I also see that I have always known this true reality.
I do have another question that rises from this awareness.
Last week I wrote this down: There is no separation between mind and no mind, even though mind is a conceptual overlay. Paradox vanishes. Even untruth is of the One and yet not, infused, supported by an emptiness that cannot be described. Thought does not bother me. I engage in the world as a play and though unreal, is loved as the All.
Sometimes however and today, this is noticed: True reality is not aware of anything, not even of dream states. Only the pure, unmarked, absolute reality exists, so there is nothing else to be aware of.
When you have time, can you let me in on any sense of what is going on here? The awareness is different.
Thank you for being there.
ANSWER:
Part of the old you is struggle desperately to stay alive--or this is how it appears.
Actually, there is a loose wheel portion of your mind that keeps spinning out of habit, generating questions and perplexities.
Sort of like having a sore tooth, but after the root canal, something seems wrong without it.
At times you let this process take over and out spins questions and perplexities.
The only light to shed is that this is a pathological part of yourself that needs passive observation and separation from.
It is almost like you just received $20,000,000 and then start asking questions about how two bills seem to have been printed at different mints, have different signatures on them, and different colors, thinking there might be some deep meaning.
You have been searching a long time and part of you would feel lost if there were nothing more to do except sit still.
READER:
Thank you Ed. Your description is so brilliantly clear that I have to laugh. I see the residual habit. I see my endearing toothache. I will sit still, passively observing. I don't mind. The old is not my only choice anymore. Thank you again for your keen guidance. I don't believe you fully know how much you help me.
READER:
Hi again Ed, I know that you want me to dwell in emptiness, in true existence as much as possible. But last night, I was reading Robert's Collected Works and would appreciate your clarification if it's alright. If I shouldn't even be asking this, I understand. It relates to, but is also different from the original question I asked you about deep sleep.
Robert states: "Once you go to sleep, the world no longer exists for you and you are is a state of dreamless sleep. The state of dreamless sleep is like jnana, self-realization, except you have consciousness. But there is no denying that you exist, for when you wake up you say, "I slept well." The state of dreamless sleep is like a person who died. It gives you an idea of what happens to you when you die, so to speak....So the first state of consciousness is dreamless sleep, and you exist in dreamless sleep."
This does not feel true for me as there are often times in which I am not aware that I had been sleeping (only the clock tells me) and so Robert's statement does not for me, "confirm" my existence, my undying consciousness. In fact, deep sleep seems to be the exception to the recognition that I exist. I do realize that my question is also rooted in an egoic fear, in old family history, but it snags me.
In your own writings you say: "Even the deep sleep state is a state of consciousness. The brain, mind and body are shut down during that ‘time’. All is forgotten because remembering requires mind. Mind is shut down during deep sleep as is the brain. Both are forgotten. But an underlying tone of awareness continues. Many people after some practice "feel" the presence of the sleep state even when awake. YOU are that which can simultaneously be aware of both waking and sleeping, even though you are primarily the waking state at the time.....There is no argument that can prove there is an observing consciousness or existence in sleep. All arguments that there is consciousness in sleep depend on argumentation and inference. They try to convince the reader that this is their direct experience by inference. This is a weakness of all Jnani-style expositions: he mystery of the deep sleep state..."
What you write is true, isn't it? Unborn existence or awareness cannot be confirmed in deep sleep, the one state free of mind. Awareness in deep sleep appears to have been unquestionably true for Robert as an exception. Still any clarification would again be helpful.
ANSWER:
Ahh, you lost it. That is to be expected.
Robert was repeating the standard Jnana-Advaita argument that just does not wash. It is a ridiculous argument.
BUT, you are still looking for a waking-type of awareness in deep sleep. It won't happen. Ever.
The question again comes from a place of identification with waking consciousness as the only "real" consciousness.
However, the waking consciousness is an artifact of having a body and depends on the state of the body. It is weak, feeble and temporary. Ditto dream sleep.
Dream sleep is the imaginal world weakly illuminated by waking consciousness.
The real argument is that you are That which is aware of the coming and going of waking consciousness.
The analogy I used was a candle flame. The flame itself, if conscious, would not be aware of its non-existence. Only the wick and the observer would be aware of the coming and going of the flame.
So too with you. You are aware you are aware now, and you are also aware you will not be aware 12 hours from now.
That you is like the wick or the observer.
You can argue that it is only the conscious mind that knows it will not be a few hours hence and not something beyond, yet, when you wake up and when you go to sleep you do watch the coming and going of sleep. It is not the waking mind that observes that, it is the underlying consciousness associated with having an alive body, Turiya.
It is this recognition that you see the coming and going that creates the knowledge you are beyond all this. You can never see That which is beyond it, but you become rooted in it with that knowledge.
I go one step further than most Advaita. Most take that emptiness and Void they perceive to be that out of which the world and body arise, but the Void is merely another percept. You perceive it. You are beyond by having no property at all, not even void or space, just as when you sleep.
That is, without a body you are nothing at all, not even sentient. You are the witness of all sentience including waking consciousness.
I never asked Robert if he had a waking consciousness with memory at night. I think if I were to ask him, he would say he did not.
You have to lose hold of waking consciousness as being the measure of all existence. It is not.
READER:
Wow Ed, Thank you for your response. Everything you say is extremely clear. Formless, aware presence "returned". No qualities or properties here, not a mark. This reality is so real, yet of nothing. Also today, I directly saw the made-up quality of my fear. So made up! I heard that people laugh when seeing this, but I never did. Today though, the seriousness with which I had taken this storybook sense of reality made me laugh. I also see that I have always known this true reality.
I do have another question that rises from this awareness.
Last week I wrote this down: There is no separation between mind and no mind, even though mind is a conceptual overlay. Paradox vanishes. Even untruth is of the One and yet not, infused, supported by an emptiness that cannot be described. Thought does not bother me. I engage in the world as a play and though unreal, is loved as the All.
Sometimes however and today, this is noticed: True reality is not aware of anything, not even of dream states. Only the pure, unmarked, absolute reality exists, so there is nothing else to be aware of.
When you have time, can you let me in on any sense of what is going on here? The awareness is different.
Thank you for being there.
ANSWER:
Part of the old you is struggle desperately to stay alive--or this is how it appears.
Actually, there is a loose wheel portion of your mind that keeps spinning out of habit, generating questions and perplexities.
Sort of like having a sore tooth, but after the root canal, something seems wrong without it.
At times you let this process take over and out spins questions and perplexities.
The only light to shed is that this is a pathological part of yourself that needs passive observation and separation from.
It is almost like you just received $20,000,000 and then start asking questions about how two bills seem to have been printed at different mints, have different signatures on them, and different colors, thinking there might be some deep meaning.
You have been searching a long time and part of you would feel lost if there were nothing more to do except sit still.
READER:
Thank you Ed. Your description is so brilliantly clear that I have to laugh. I see the residual habit. I see my endearing toothache. I will sit still, passively observing. I don't mind. The old is not my only choice anymore. Thank you again for your keen guidance. I don't believe you fully know how much you help me.
07 February 2009
A Reader Awakens
...
...
The last post was a question from a reader and my responses. The topic was sleep. The exchange is listed in the previous post.
Since then, there were additional exchanges recorded immediately below.
She has awakened. Her experience is real. It is obvious by her comments and questions that she has been wandering in the foothills of enlightenment for some time. This will not be her last Satori.
Now that she has seen clearly who she is, she will need to hold onto it and deepen both her experience and understanding. Remember, Robert spent 17 years wandering around India making sure, as he put it, that “I didn’t miss anything.” Ramana spent years living in the basement of temples or caves speaking to no one. This is the real beginning of practice.
As Philip Kapleau told me, the initial seeing is like finding the light switch in a dark room. When the light goes on so to speak, you begin to see the wonders of consciousness and beyond.
READER:
Hi Ed,
Yesterday, I witnessed the coming and going of appearances for about ten hours. I saw that all objects are empty of inherent Being, are a reflection of mind and yet in a way, are themselves of Being, of Consciousness, because they are objects or reflections of Consciousness. I can generally embrace this, even though at times I can get a kind of ego rebellion and feel unpleasantly dead. I realize that this feeling is just another thought, an identification with mind and body, and will need to witness this too.
Anyway, here is my question. Although it is clear to me that the object world is a reflection of mind-body thoughts and perceptions, are there not objects or a world outside of the human mind-body that are also reflections of the one ultimate conscious reality? If I see a tree for instance, I can "see" that this appearance includes a product of thought and perception. However, if I tell another "person" about the tree, its appearance and location, it will be recognized by the other as the same tree.
So is there not an illusory reflection of Reality or Supreme Consciousness going on that is not an exclusive reflection of the human perceptual, thinking mind alone and that creates the appearance of a world? That is, is ultimate reality reflecting an illusory world as well as and including an illusory human thinking mind that also creates an image of a world, or is there only the human mind creating the dream of world?
If it's the later, I don't understand it, cannot reconcile the contradiction of the apparent consistency of the world even in light of the mere inferences of sensory perception. For me this makes it difficult to know how to address and live in this world even as a dream.
Thanks so much for being there. Being able to write to you is so helpful.
RESPONSE:
Why are you doing this?
The question is only philosophy, asking epistemological and ontological opinions. This is only thinking. The question is bullcrappy. It is of no more value than asking whether the numbers 2 and 5 have some actual physical existence as a logical set somewhere in space-time.
All elements of consciousness are illusion, including your question. There is no human. There is no human mind. There is no Cosmic mind or Absolute. These are just words. There is nothing behind them.
You are getting close, don't screw around "reconciling." What is there to reconcile in order to drink coffee at Starbucks?
What you are to do is investigate your experience, isolate unadulterated consciousness and dwell there.
In any event, you can answer the question yourself and see what it does for you. Ask the question and then say, "Yes there is." Then ask and say, "No, there isn't." See whether either answer helps you in any way. Perhaps you just enjoy feeling perplexed.
Have you discovered what the dark denseness experience is yet?
READER:
Hi Ed, I understand and see that what you said is so. I'll drop all this and go back to dwelling in reality, in true conscious awareness. I started already. I watched the dark emptiness for two hours when I woke up, but it remained dense. When I look at it right now, I sense it as an illusory thought form, but in this next moment, it is lighter and not truly dead. I still don't know. I will look at it through the evening and then again in the morning when the experience of the dense darkness is very strong.
Thank you for the wake up call. I am very grateful.
RESPONSE:
The darkness is only sleep.
You are always aware of all three states, deep sleep, waking and dream. Everyone is always aware of the dream state always without knowing it. It is the constant movement of thought forms and images I call imaginal space.
You are aware of all three states at once. That You is beyond them and has no characteristic they have such as waking consciousness, time, space, objects, etc.
Please read the new site very carefully. Most of your questions will be answered there. It is the blue site within the yellow/orange site.
READER:
Ed, I gasped when I read your response. After looking at the dense darkness for over an hour, I saw that it was of the mind, but did not grasp its nature. When you just said, "The darkness is only sleep", there was complete clarity. That's what I was seeing, a mind-based sleep state!! This clarity is liberating. Yet, I am also aware that I am beyond "this clarity". I am beyond this knowing, yet not separate from it. I am beyond being and not-being, beyond all concepts. I read the new site twice and will continue to read it carefully. I am so very grateful for your guidance.
RESPONSE:
Congratulations!
Don’t lose it.
Practice.
Since then, there were additional exchanges recorded immediately below.
She has awakened. Her experience is real. It is obvious by her comments and questions that she has been wandering in the foothills of enlightenment for some time. This will not be her last Satori.
Now that she has seen clearly who she is, she will need to hold onto it and deepen both her experience and understanding. Remember, Robert spent 17 years wandering around India making sure, as he put it, that “I didn’t miss anything.” Ramana spent years living in the basement of temples or caves speaking to no one. This is the real beginning of practice.
As Philip Kapleau told me, the initial seeing is like finding the light switch in a dark room. When the light goes on so to speak, you begin to see the wonders of consciousness and beyond.
READER:
Hi Ed,
Yesterday, I witnessed the coming and going of appearances for about ten hours. I saw that all objects are empty of inherent Being, are a reflection of mind and yet in a way, are themselves of Being, of Consciousness, because they are objects or reflections of Consciousness. I can generally embrace this, even though at times I can get a kind of ego rebellion and feel unpleasantly dead. I realize that this feeling is just another thought, an identification with mind and body, and will need to witness this too.
Anyway, here is my question. Although it is clear to me that the object world is a reflection of mind-body thoughts and perceptions, are there not objects or a world outside of the human mind-body that are also reflections of the one ultimate conscious reality? If I see a tree for instance, I can "see" that this appearance includes a product of thought and perception. However, if I tell another "person" about the tree, its appearance and location, it will be recognized by the other as the same tree.
So is there not an illusory reflection of Reality or Supreme Consciousness going on that is not an exclusive reflection of the human perceptual, thinking mind alone and that creates the appearance of a world? That is, is ultimate reality reflecting an illusory world as well as and including an illusory human thinking mind that also creates an image of a world, or is there only the human mind creating the dream of world?
If it's the later, I don't understand it, cannot reconcile the contradiction of the apparent consistency of the world even in light of the mere inferences of sensory perception. For me this makes it difficult to know how to address and live in this world even as a dream.
Thanks so much for being there. Being able to write to you is so helpful.
RESPONSE:
Why are you doing this?
The question is only philosophy, asking epistemological and ontological opinions. This is only thinking. The question is bullcrappy. It is of no more value than asking whether the numbers 2 and 5 have some actual physical existence as a logical set somewhere in space-time.
All elements of consciousness are illusion, including your question. There is no human. There is no human mind. There is no Cosmic mind or Absolute. These are just words. There is nothing behind them.
You are getting close, don't screw around "reconciling." What is there to reconcile in order to drink coffee at Starbucks?
What you are to do is investigate your experience, isolate unadulterated consciousness and dwell there.
In any event, you can answer the question yourself and see what it does for you. Ask the question and then say, "Yes there is." Then ask and say, "No, there isn't." See whether either answer helps you in any way. Perhaps you just enjoy feeling perplexed.
Have you discovered what the dark denseness experience is yet?
READER:
Hi Ed, I understand and see that what you said is so. I'll drop all this and go back to dwelling in reality, in true conscious awareness. I started already. I watched the dark emptiness for two hours when I woke up, but it remained dense. When I look at it right now, I sense it as an illusory thought form, but in this next moment, it is lighter and not truly dead. I still don't know. I will look at it through the evening and then again in the morning when the experience of the dense darkness is very strong.
Thank you for the wake up call. I am very grateful.
RESPONSE:
The darkness is only sleep.
You are always aware of all three states, deep sleep, waking and dream. Everyone is always aware of the dream state always without knowing it. It is the constant movement of thought forms and images I call imaginal space.
You are aware of all three states at once. That You is beyond them and has no characteristic they have such as waking consciousness, time, space, objects, etc.
Please read the new site very carefully. Most of your questions will be answered there. It is the blue site within the yellow/orange site.
READER:
Ed, I gasped when I read your response. After looking at the dense darkness for over an hour, I saw that it was of the mind, but did not grasp its nature. When you just said, "The darkness is only sleep", there was complete clarity. That's what I was seeing, a mind-based sleep state!! This clarity is liberating. Yet, I am also aware that I am beyond "this clarity". I am beyond this knowing, yet not separate from it. I am beyond being and not-being, beyond all concepts. I read the new site twice and will continue to read it carefully. I am so very grateful for your guidance.
RESPONSE:
Congratulations!
Don’t lose it.
Practice.
READER:
Thanks Ed. New morning. The mind "does not work" in the deep sleep state, so there is the appearance of dense darkness. I am now aware of this as an appearance, aware that this is a mind state that comes and goes and that I am not it. I am beyond all arisings in the imaginal mind. I am aware of this state, yet "have no characteristic of it". In under one week, you saved me an additional ten years of searching, or maybe a lifetime. Thank you, thank you!
05 February 2009
Sleeping mind, waking mind, enlightenment.
Hi Ed, You said that you allow for crazy questions. Here's one that has been plaguing me for a over a decade. It would be nice to be rid of it. Here it is. While literally awake, Consciousness, Bliss, etc. are accessible. All of this however, seems to totally disappear when I am in a deep, dreamless sleep. Let me qualify.
When I am waking up from this dreamless sleep, I look at what I am rising from, still half in the sleep, and it seems that there is nothing there, the absence of even a flickering light of Awareness. Instead, there seems to be only a kind of dark blankness and I become afraid that this is what death truly is. Years ago when I was under anesthesia, I woke with the profound sense that what I was rising from is what death really is, a literal and absolute dead blankness.
If Awareness is always here and truly eternal, why would there not be some taste of Consciousness when I look at the deep sleep "state" while still half in it? Now I realize that Consciousness is not a "thing" to be remembered. That is why I emphasize being between the waking and sleep states when considering this issue. The egoic self feels afraid that formless awareness may after all, just be a product of the waking brain, of the unconscious mind and this perpetuates a fear of death that I would like to be free of.
Advaita writings talk all of the time about deep dreamless sleep as that of pure Consciousness. How do they know? If this nagging concern were to abate, I would have a quieter mind. No one I have ever talked to has been able to address this question. Is this going to be one of those unanswerable questions that are free?
Answer:
THIS IS THE CENTRAL QUESTION AND DILEMMA OF ALL JNANA TEACHINGS, ZEN, ADVAITA, ETC.
Not one in 10,000 get this as the central problem, know, illusion.
Listen carefully.
This is what I first wrote when I lost identification with the body and I saw waking consciousness--I Am--come and go:
I am That who is aware of the coming and going of I Am, of consciousness.
I am even before this knowledge.
I have no attibutes, I am before and beyond all attributes, knowing and not knowing.
I am and the world are little things compared to me.
Your problem is you still identify with waking consciousness and the body. Waking consciousness is trivial.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
Being and Not Being arise in you. You are That who is aware of their coming and going.
As such, you are That who is beyond both.
This is the liberation.
At this point, just feel the dark emptiness and see what happens. It is only the sleep state in the background. It comes and goes. You are the witness of it coming and going. It is not you; it is a percept. But, when you know it, it has a welcoming nature.
The knowledge that you are not that which comes and goes is the first liberation. What you are is unknowable as an object. You are it, the witness of all. This is the beginning of your real practice after the disidentification with the body.
Next is to tease out all the extraneous added on stuff and find the Fundamental without adulteration. As of now, just take the position of the witness of the coming and going and recognize you are even beyond the knowledge that you are beyond consciousness.
Also, read closely what “Advaita writers” are actually saying. Conscious sleep means only that the thinking mind is not working. Nothing more. The mind does not work in deep sleep. So, what they mean is having no mental workings while awake. This is what they mean by waking sleep.
You have projected a meaning into what they say that they did not mean. But it is their screw up because they are not clear.
Hi Ed, You said that you allow for crazy questions. Here's one that has been plaguing me for a over a decade. It would be nice to be rid of it. Here it is. While literally awake, Consciousness, Bliss, etc. are accessible. All of this however, seems to totally disappear when I am in a deep, dreamless sleep. Let me qualify.
When I am waking up from this dreamless sleep, I look at what I am rising from, still half in the sleep, and it seems that there is nothing there, the absence of even a flickering light of Awareness. Instead, there seems to be only a kind of dark blankness and I become afraid that this is what death truly is. Years ago when I was under anesthesia, I woke with the profound sense that what I was rising from is what death really is, a literal and absolute dead blankness.
If Awareness is always here and truly eternal, why would there not be some taste of Consciousness when I look at the deep sleep "state" while still half in it? Now I realize that Consciousness is not a "thing" to be remembered. That is why I emphasize being between the waking and sleep states when considering this issue. The egoic self feels afraid that formless awareness may after all, just be a product of the waking brain, of the unconscious mind and this perpetuates a fear of death that I would like to be free of.
Advaita writings talk all of the time about deep dreamless sleep as that of pure Consciousness. How do they know? If this nagging concern were to abate, I would have a quieter mind. No one I have ever talked to has been able to address this question. Is this going to be one of those unanswerable questions that are free?
Answer:
THIS IS THE CENTRAL QUESTION AND DILEMMA OF ALL JNANA TEACHINGS, ZEN, ADVAITA, ETC.
Not one in 10,000 get this as the central problem, know, illusion.
Listen carefully.
This is what I first wrote when I lost identification with the body and I saw waking consciousness--I Am--come and go:
I am That who is aware of the coming and going of I Am, of consciousness.
I am even before this knowledge.
I have no attibutes, I am before and beyond all attributes, knowing and not knowing.
I am and the world are little things compared to me.
Your problem is you still identify with waking consciousness and the body. Waking consciousness is trivial.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.
Being and Not Being arise in you. You are That who is aware of their coming and going.
As such, you are That who is beyond both.
This is the liberation.
At this point, just feel the dark emptiness and see what happens. It is only the sleep state in the background. It comes and goes. You are the witness of it coming and going. It is not you; it is a percept. But, when you know it, it has a welcoming nature.
The knowledge that you are not that which comes and goes is the first liberation. What you are is unknowable as an object. You are it, the witness of all. This is the beginning of your real practice after the disidentification with the body.
Next is to tease out all the extraneous added on stuff and find the Fundamental without adulteration. As of now, just take the position of the witness of the coming and going and recognize you are even beyond the knowledge that you are beyond consciousness.
Also, read closely what “Advaita writers” are actually saying. Conscious sleep means only that the thinking mind is not working. Nothing more. The mind does not work in deep sleep. So, what they mean is having no mental workings while awake. This is what they mean by waking sleep.
You have projected a meaning into what they say that they did not mean. But it is their screw up because they are not clear.
17 January 2009
A reader writes:
Dear Ed,
I wanted to add to my question I sent...and not sure this needs to be added to the online site...up to you...
The Work question... "Is it true?" also stops the mind, like "Who am I?" or "What am I?"
I find for myself that I no longer need to write thoughts. That last night when I thought "I am crazy" I then asked myself "what is crazy?" and found myself laughing. I practice direct asking "what am I? or "what is upset?"..."what is going through this?" or "what is having a stomach ache?" I continually find the answer as no one, nothing, no "I"... peaceful, still, empty, no- thing SELF, always there. I find nothing is ever happening, that all arises and falls away in this SELF that is present, happy, still, silent, like a watcher, observing all phenomena, itself empty but alive, love, benevolent SELF, holding all without preference, hereness, amness, beingness.
Although I do not stay here but return to mind world, I believe I return because of familiarity of old conditioned self.
Anyway, wanted to add this because I wonder if The Work can also bring folks here, although maybe not this self, or perhaps I am cheating myself by not writing it all down and being lazy?
Thanks for the help on all this...feels good to get this all out.
Response:
Any strong question stops the mind, but only "Who am I?" or similar help you locate the thread of consciousness that leads back to the source.
Is it true only stops the mind and thinking, but does not provide the thread.
Dear Ed,
I wanted to add to my question I sent...and not sure this needs to be added to the online site...up to you...
The Work question... "Is it true?" also stops the mind, like "Who am I?" or "What am I?"
I find for myself that I no longer need to write thoughts. That last night when I thought "I am crazy" I then asked myself "what is crazy?" and found myself laughing. I practice direct asking "what am I? or "what is upset?"..."what is going through this?" or "what is having a stomach ache?" I continually find the answer as no one, nothing, no "I"... peaceful, still, empty, no- thing SELF, always there. I find nothing is ever happening, that all arises and falls away in this SELF that is present, happy, still, silent, like a watcher, observing all phenomena, itself empty but alive, love, benevolent SELF, holding all without preference, hereness, amness, beingness.
Although I do not stay here but return to mind world, I believe I return because of familiarity of old conditioned self.
Anyway, wanted to add this because I wonder if The Work can also bring folks here, although maybe not this self, or perhaps I am cheating myself by not writing it all down and being lazy?
Thanks for the help on all this...feels good to get this all out.
Response:
Any strong question stops the mind, but only "Who am I?" or similar help you locate the thread of consciousness that leads back to the source.
Is it true only stops the mind and thinking, but does not provide the thread.
15 January 2009
Many States; the "True" state.
A reader asks:
I have been trying to meditate on the "I am" but I am never really sure if this "I am" or my "meditation on consciousness" is not just another illusion. I don't really want to be running in circles forever, so I thought I'd email you about my current states/meditations and see which if any you consider to be the right approach. I am usually watching my mind throughout the day, and have formal sit down meditation, and music meditation at least 3-5 hours a day.
These writings on my states are copied from a diary entry I did earlier today.
CURRENT STATES:
1. Unconscious robot state. This state is kind of relaxing as it is mentally taxing to keep awareness at all times. Anyways in this state I usually just go into robotic critter mode, without any consciousness of speech and actions, self, etc. Is this the state I was always in before my turiya experience which briefly awoken my heart? In this state I almost always catch myself acting as a robot, and will sometimes (when exhausted from meditation, etc) just release and allow myself to become a robot again. It seems like after an intense meditation it's a good thing (or just easy) to just become a robot again, puts the mind at ease.
2. Forced concentration silent state. This is possibly what is called Laya, I am unsure. In this state I sometimes have such intense concentration it is overwhelming. Brain is mostly silent in this state, and thoughts have hardly any hold over me, they seem like futile attempts of mind. Concentration seems most intense while high on marijuana. The intense concentration feeling almost immediantly vanishes when I let the mind take over again.
3. Nice feeling meditation. In this state I concentrate on the impersonal nice feeling in the solar plexus that breathe seems to bring about (increased oxygen?). This state feels pleasant and when I focus I can continue this meditation without interruption from mind. However when the focus is lost, mind creeps back in until I realize that I fell back into robot mode. I have not attempted this meditation for long periods, or practiced it very long. I hear that if you focus on the heart and its feeling "I am" ? there is a chance it will swallow you up. Is this the right meditation for the swallowing to occur, the nice feeling doesn't really feel like its mine, it just feels like its there?
4. Everyday base awareness. I think I am in this state throughout most the day, just watching what is going on from an objective perspective, especially focused on watching my mind. I almost always catch myself slipping into robot mode and will bring myself back to this base awareness. This state is not extremely pleasant or anything, but it does root you into more of a reality into what is actually going on, rather than constantly day dreaming. Sometimes I feel good in this state, and sometimes I am without feelings until a stimuli (usually a person or animal) produces a feeling in me.
5. Meditating on consciousness? I am not sure if I have the right meditation here, but it seems to me like I am meditating on the mind/awareness itself. Mind is silent and thoughts rarely penetrate my focus. This is hard to explain as I am not really sure what is happening here. Am I tracing consciousness to its source, it sometimes feels this way? Would this type of meditation be right, or is it just another futile effort?
6. Spontaneous attempt of the hearts. This to me is the most genuine state or experience that I have throughout life. It feels as though the heart tries to break loose. Such pure love seems to randomly appear, albeit very briefly. Tears often ensue and thinking of Ramana makes me feel extremely comforted and loved. I would like to think this is turiya trying to break out, but I don't know. Sometimes brain will be like," Yes turiya come please come!" other times it will be fearful of its demise and want to go into robot mode. These experiences of intense bliss cannot be forced. Sometimes I will purposefully think of Ramana, and him saying "everything is fine" but I will have no response (besides an objective part of my personality which says, "you're pathetic, you can't force yourself to care!" It seems like these attempts of the heart breaking out occur most during listening of music, random points in meditation and random points throughout the day. These spontaneous attempts of the heart are probably the only real way to realize the self, but I want to ensure I am doing the right things to increase the chances of these attempts occurring.
7. Sleep meditation mixed with laziness ? I absolutely love sleeping, oh my; it's probably one of my most enjoyable things. I guess not existing is just that much fun! I think I almost always go into deep sleeps, since I hardly ever remember dreams (maybe one every four months). I read in the Nisargadatta Gita that the moment before fully waking up is a good place to catch turiya, and this makes a tremendous amount of sense. Almost every morning I become a little conscious before my mind fully wakes up, I have not caught turiya, but it is a wonderful state where I hardly know anything, I can see it being useful. Often times though enough of my mind appears which knows "this is a good place for turiya, where are you turiya!?"
These writings on my states are copied from a diary entry I did earlier today.
CURRENT STATES:
1. Unconscious robot state. This state is kind of relaxing as it is mentally taxing to keep awareness at all times. Anyways in this state I usually just go into robotic critter mode, without any consciousness of speech and actions, self, etc. Is this the state I was always in before my turiya experience which briefly awoken my heart? In this state I almost always catch myself acting as a robot, and will sometimes (when exhausted from meditation, etc) just release and allow myself to become a robot again. It seems like after an intense meditation it's a good thing (or just easy) to just become a robot again, puts the mind at ease.
2. Forced concentration silent state. This is possibly what is called Laya, I am unsure. In this state I sometimes have such intense concentration it is overwhelming. Brain is mostly silent in this state, and thoughts have hardly any hold over me, they seem like futile attempts of mind. Concentration seems most intense while high on marijuana. The intense concentration feeling almost immediantly vanishes when I let the mind take over again.
3. Nice feeling meditation. In this state I concentrate on the impersonal nice feeling in the solar plexus that breathe seems to bring about (increased oxygen?). This state feels pleasant and when I focus I can continue this meditation without interruption from mind. However when the focus is lost, mind creeps back in until I realize that I fell back into robot mode. I have not attempted this meditation for long periods, or practiced it very long. I hear that if you focus on the heart and its feeling "I am" ? there is a chance it will swallow you up. Is this the right meditation for the swallowing to occur, the nice feeling doesn't really feel like its mine, it just feels like its there?
4. Everyday base awareness. I think I am in this state throughout most the day, just watching what is going on from an objective perspective, especially focused on watching my mind. I almost always catch myself slipping into robot mode and will bring myself back to this base awareness. This state is not extremely pleasant or anything, but it does root you into more of a reality into what is actually going on, rather than constantly day dreaming. Sometimes I feel good in this state, and sometimes I am without feelings until a stimuli (usually a person or animal) produces a feeling in me.
5. Meditating on consciousness? I am not sure if I have the right meditation here, but it seems to me like I am meditating on the mind/awareness itself. Mind is silent and thoughts rarely penetrate my focus. This is hard to explain as I am not really sure what is happening here. Am I tracing consciousness to its source, it sometimes feels this way? Would this type of meditation be right, or is it just another futile effort?
6. Spontaneous attempt of the hearts. This to me is the most genuine state or experience that I have throughout life. It feels as though the heart tries to break loose. Such pure love seems to randomly appear, albeit very briefly. Tears often ensue and thinking of Ramana makes me feel extremely comforted and loved. I would like to think this is turiya trying to break out, but I don't know. Sometimes brain will be like," Yes turiya come please come!" other times it will be fearful of its demise and want to go into robot mode. These experiences of intense bliss cannot be forced. Sometimes I will purposefully think of Ramana, and him saying "everything is fine" but I will have no response (besides an objective part of my personality which says, "you're pathetic, you can't force yourself to care!" It seems like these attempts of the heart breaking out occur most during listening of music, random points in meditation and random points throughout the day. These spontaneous attempts of the heart are probably the only real way to realize the self, but I want to ensure I am doing the right things to increase the chances of these attempts occurring.
7. Sleep meditation mixed with laziness ? I absolutely love sleeping, oh my; it's probably one of my most enjoyable things. I guess not existing is just that much fun! I think I almost always go into deep sleeps, since I hardly ever remember dreams (maybe one every four months). I read in the Nisargadatta Gita that the moment before fully waking up is a good place to catch turiya, and this makes a tremendous amount of sense. Almost every morning I become a little conscious before my mind fully wakes up, I have not caught turiya, but it is a wonderful state where I hardly know anything, I can see it being useful. Often times though enough of my mind appears which knows "this is a good place for turiya, where are you turiya!?"
While I know these random thoughts just appear from nowhere and they dont feel like they belong to me, it's hard for them to go away! I often try and meditate in this state and watch myself go back to sleep. I will wake up, watch, and go back to sleep and then repeat the process maybe two or three more times (very lazy, I've been working a lot lately).
In my meditations I often will ask myself "who am I", "who is experiencing this", "where does this come from", etc. Sometimes there is a genuine curiosity for the answers, othertimes I just don't care.
Basically I do enjoy life, I do not ever really think about my personality and I have seen myself become more child like, and a loss of judgments. Also I have seen myself become much more forgetful and newbish (I guess this is from thinking less, or focusing on the external world less?). Things do seem fresher, and I do seem "more aware." But also things aren't so great. I clearly see that my mind is not really mine, we are not in control of it, is the best we can do just watch our robot selves?
In my meditations I often will ask myself "who am I", "who is experiencing this", "where does this come from", etc. Sometimes there is a genuine curiosity for the answers, othertimes I just don't care.
Basically I do enjoy life, I do not ever really think about my personality and I have seen myself become more child like, and a loss of judgments. Also I have seen myself become much more forgetful and newbish (I guess this is from thinking less, or focusing on the external world less?). Things do seem fresher, and I do seem "more aware." But also things aren't so great. I clearly see that my mind is not really mine, we are not in control of it, is the best we can do just watch our robot selves?
There is hardly anything that really feels like mine, not the nice solar plexus feeling, not the conscious meditating on itself state, and this doesn't bother me, but for the fact that don't you have to hold onto an "I am" to bring about the right conditions? So even though life seems stress free and is for the most part without worries I still know that my true essence is turiya, so I can't help but want to be completely free from this robotic life. I am not sure if I am close, I would like to think so though.
My mind seems often scared of its demise, because it remembers dying once. I often find my mind making up bullshit excuses during meditation, to avoid a breakthrough of the heart, the mind is afraid. As mind does become kinda scared at times, as it recognizes the severity of its "dying", I think a loving teacher would really help me break out, to show me fully that everything is just fine, but I know that this is already within me, so a physical teacher is not technically required....Even though the turiya experience directly showed me that everything is perfect, everyone is already enlightened I still think it's terribly sad that people are unconscious of it and we are really fucking up this world/ourselves.
A part of me wants to become free and wake up as soon as possible, not only because I am tired of this robot self, but because I really want to help wake up others....
thanks for reading, anything would be appreciated!
Reply:
It is important to not be fascinated by the passing phenomena, but find the source. There is the underlying identity to whom all this is happening.
Be aware that you are separate from and witnessing all this.
Then fall backward into the identity that is aware you are not the states you observe.\
Then recognize you are even before the recognition that those states are not you.
The way you are going is exceedingly complex because you are chasing leaves, not retracing the root.
The saving grace is you are looking in the right direction with energy and intelligence. That energy and persistence are 99% of the equation. Keep it up!
But deep inside you must recognize the seeker in you is That to whom all this is occurring, and therefore, much, much bigger than even Turiya. This is a big show, who is watching it? On the other hand, That is not a thing, nor even a state. It is beyond the world. Beyong waking and sleep and even beyond Turiya.
Ed
thanks for reading, anything would be appreciated!
Reply:
It is important to not be fascinated by the passing phenomena, but find the source. There is the underlying identity to whom all this is happening.
Be aware that you are separate from and witnessing all this.
Then fall backward into the identity that is aware you are not the states you observe.\
Then recognize you are even before the recognition that those states are not you.
The way you are going is exceedingly complex because you are chasing leaves, not retracing the root.
The saving grace is you are looking in the right direction with energy and intelligence. That energy and persistence are 99% of the equation. Keep it up!
But deep inside you must recognize the seeker in you is That to whom all this is occurring, and therefore, much, much bigger than even Turiya. This is a big show, who is watching it? On the other hand, That is not a thing, nor even a state. It is beyond the world. Beyong waking and sleep and even beyond Turiya.
Ed
14 January 2009
MORE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Below. I get emails from many seekers with different email addresses but with the same surname. I get confused as to who is who because I find multiple threads of email exchanges from different addresses with SOMETIMES similar content. The below conversations are from AL and J, who share the same name. They may well be two, but I answer them as one.
Conversation #1 From J:
As per your instruction, I have been starting my day with the Nisargadatta Gita. Wonderful text. I can say it is helping without a doubt. To what degree, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if degree matters. It has helped me see how far reaching and simultaneously subtle the workings of the mind are. On a few occasions, it felt as if my thoughts, and the energy that goes along with them, melted away, and aside from my eyes, there was very little sensation in the head. In fact it seemed as if my thoughts moved downward internally. And on one occasion I thought I caught a thought springing up from below. I don't put much value in sensation. Should I?
I have begun to grasp the fact that the "I am" is present at all times and it is getting easier to fall back to it at all times of the day. I find myself becoming suddenly less partial in arguments. In fact I seem to have lost the desire to argue at all. This can't be understated. I've always reveled in arguing because I'm quite good at it. But in the limited amount of conversation I've had about "I am" with some close friends, I have observed in them the mind's ability to argue any phrase of words, no matter how true. I've seen this in myself as well.
I feel I've made great progress, yet I feel I don't really have any idea what I'm doing. I'm tired of trying to figure things out, yet I desire nothing else. One thing I can not do is use my memory to go back to the early childhood "I am". Although I don't expect I should be able to do this so easily.
I am learning the value of reading slowly (I've always been a relatively slow reader, last one done in class). It helps to create gaps that make it difficult for the mind to bridge. The mind seems to cycle the last thought until the next one is ready. I am learning to let the last thought drop before moving on to a new idea. My mind does not like this. It makes me want to sleep. In fact this newfound daytime sleepiness is my biggest obstacle right now. I hope this is some period of adjustment or some form of protest by my mind. I don't want to turn into Winnie the Pooh. I do like to get things done.
I thank you very much for your feedback. I know no one nor can I seem to find anyone in Appalachian Ohio that has had even the tiny glimpse I have had to discuss these things with. Is that a plus or minus? Is it good to seek out others in this? Or is it better to stay put and stay quiet?
Answer #1:
Jeremy, you are doing very well. Keep going as you are.
Seek others out as it is a boon to find them, but do not seek too high and far. They will be close, so don't make a career out of it.
You will feel your own correct place and time.
Conversation # 2, J:
I was reading some of your blog posts, and there seems to be a theme in spiritual matters which I just can't relate to. I almost never remember any dreams. As a child I would remember nightmares, which were common, and there were dreams about girls as a teen, but in my adult life, the amount of times I have awoke with any sense, let alone vivid memory, of what transpired in my dreams I could probably count on my fingers. And all but 2 or 3 of those have been very simple little dreams where I finish a conversation that never got finished in the waking state.
My question is, should I spend any time investigating this, or is this something that abiding in the I am will lead me to in due course?
Answer #2
There is nothing to be gained by pursuing the subject.
Your mind tries to distract you saying "I am bored with self-inquiry."
So to speak, your unreal ego is getting frigtened--at least that is the standard explanation. In fact, it is all bullshit. Just don't go down that path, it is a time-waster.
Conversation #3, J:
Your directness is appreciated. That day I woke up with a remarkable freshness, tried to "hold on" to it, but the mind fought back especially hard, it seemed. I had lots of "ideas" that day.
Would I be right in assuming that any "ideas" I might think I have are just that? What I mean is any idea is a collection of words and therefore of the mind, and therefore at best symbolic of what I'm after? I think I answered my own question.
Conversation # 4, AL (AKA J???)
Ed, my teacher, friend, cyber guru, very own self, dreamed up charachter. It is so strange that after realizing the whole ball of wax emanates from me including the idea of an Ed, a Ramana, and a J., life has collapsed into a very normal humanly existence except one thing, I know its ALL me, whatever I am, each moment just a passing show, day dreams and night dream are the same.
It is funny how every night new charachters from my entire dream existence of 41 years all of the old even childhood friends have been there, almost to remind me of my dreaming capabilities in both states, I cant tell if the fourth state has spread to sleep but it seems with no mind it would not be evident upon so called waking. Things still happen plenty, J. still practices the musical arts, reads bible to our kids, walks dog, grows his own sprouts and goes through nutritional routines, wants to be healthy. It is just recognized as fake and really doesnt matter. When in action (such as at work).. things flow out of J. at breakneck speed with no thought involved, when still... peace and joy prevail.
My question is, should practice of any sort still be pursued, and who the hell would do it? The awareness watching awareness guy recommends practicing until bodily death to prevent the ego from coming back, but really there never was an ego is what is seen here. Also it is clear that my entire life has been nothing but thoughts manifesting as apparent reality, Robert says stay with silent mind and transcend the whole ball of wax, any pointers?
Answer # 3
You are also AB, no? many times seekers send in questions that have 2-3 email addresses, but sign the email with the same personal name. Assuming J and AB are the same, I am answering both conversations above.
I understand where you are. There is no sense of self as an operating entity so you ask who can direct the practice. Apprehending where you are feels wonderful and you feel you cannot lose it. But, you can and will until you become absolutely fixed in it.
The fact you ask questions and your mind is filled with thinking means that you are not stable enough.
Set aside some time each day, maybe three times a day where you do nothing except be.
Go until all thoughts about what i going on die, and you are absolutely fixed.
Then, assurance MAY come when you feel yourself die as an entity. Then, some time after that happens, you MAY be finished with practice.
When you rest too easy, too soon, you will eventually lose it. You may lose it no matter what "you" do, but then you start again knowing where you have to go.
Regarding dreams. It seems your mind does not produce visual images well. That is fantastic for you because it is the visual imaging sense that appears to hold the non existence world together for most. It is the "glue" that holds the illusion together far more than the other senses.
Just be careful now, constantly stay in your sense of existence. Don'r get distracted, especially by boredom down the way and the thinking there must be more to this
Below. I get emails from many seekers with different email addresses but with the same surname. I get confused as to who is who because I find multiple threads of email exchanges from different addresses with SOMETIMES similar content. The below conversations are from AL and J, who share the same name. They may well be two, but I answer them as one.
Conversation #1 From J:
As per your instruction, I have been starting my day with the Nisargadatta Gita. Wonderful text. I can say it is helping without a doubt. To what degree, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if degree matters. It has helped me see how far reaching and simultaneously subtle the workings of the mind are. On a few occasions, it felt as if my thoughts, and the energy that goes along with them, melted away, and aside from my eyes, there was very little sensation in the head. In fact it seemed as if my thoughts moved downward internally. And on one occasion I thought I caught a thought springing up from below. I don't put much value in sensation. Should I?
I have begun to grasp the fact that the "I am" is present at all times and it is getting easier to fall back to it at all times of the day. I find myself becoming suddenly less partial in arguments. In fact I seem to have lost the desire to argue at all. This can't be understated. I've always reveled in arguing because I'm quite good at it. But in the limited amount of conversation I've had about "I am" with some close friends, I have observed in them the mind's ability to argue any phrase of words, no matter how true. I've seen this in myself as well.
I feel I've made great progress, yet I feel I don't really have any idea what I'm doing. I'm tired of trying to figure things out, yet I desire nothing else. One thing I can not do is use my memory to go back to the early childhood "I am". Although I don't expect I should be able to do this so easily.
I am learning the value of reading slowly (I've always been a relatively slow reader, last one done in class). It helps to create gaps that make it difficult for the mind to bridge. The mind seems to cycle the last thought until the next one is ready. I am learning to let the last thought drop before moving on to a new idea. My mind does not like this. It makes me want to sleep. In fact this newfound daytime sleepiness is my biggest obstacle right now. I hope this is some period of adjustment or some form of protest by my mind. I don't want to turn into Winnie the Pooh. I do like to get things done.
I thank you very much for your feedback. I know no one nor can I seem to find anyone in Appalachian Ohio that has had even the tiny glimpse I have had to discuss these things with. Is that a plus or minus? Is it good to seek out others in this? Or is it better to stay put and stay quiet?
Answer #1:
Jeremy, you are doing very well. Keep going as you are.
Seek others out as it is a boon to find them, but do not seek too high and far. They will be close, so don't make a career out of it.
You will feel your own correct place and time.
Conversation # 2, J:
I was reading some of your blog posts, and there seems to be a theme in spiritual matters which I just can't relate to. I almost never remember any dreams. As a child I would remember nightmares, which were common, and there were dreams about girls as a teen, but in my adult life, the amount of times I have awoke with any sense, let alone vivid memory, of what transpired in my dreams I could probably count on my fingers. And all but 2 or 3 of those have been very simple little dreams where I finish a conversation that never got finished in the waking state.
My question is, should I spend any time investigating this, or is this something that abiding in the I am will lead me to in due course?
Answer #2
There is nothing to be gained by pursuing the subject.
Your mind tries to distract you saying "I am bored with self-inquiry."
So to speak, your unreal ego is getting frigtened--at least that is the standard explanation. In fact, it is all bullshit. Just don't go down that path, it is a time-waster.
Conversation #3, J:
Your directness is appreciated. That day I woke up with a remarkable freshness, tried to "hold on" to it, but the mind fought back especially hard, it seemed. I had lots of "ideas" that day.
Would I be right in assuming that any "ideas" I might think I have are just that? What I mean is any idea is a collection of words and therefore of the mind, and therefore at best symbolic of what I'm after? I think I answered my own question.
Conversation # 4, AL (AKA J???)
Ed, my teacher, friend, cyber guru, very own self, dreamed up charachter. It is so strange that after realizing the whole ball of wax emanates from me including the idea of an Ed, a Ramana, and a J., life has collapsed into a very normal humanly existence except one thing, I know its ALL me, whatever I am, each moment just a passing show, day dreams and night dream are the same.
It is funny how every night new charachters from my entire dream existence of 41 years all of the old even childhood friends have been there, almost to remind me of my dreaming capabilities in both states, I cant tell if the fourth state has spread to sleep but it seems with no mind it would not be evident upon so called waking. Things still happen plenty, J. still practices the musical arts, reads bible to our kids, walks dog, grows his own sprouts and goes through nutritional routines, wants to be healthy. It is just recognized as fake and really doesnt matter. When in action (such as at work).. things flow out of J. at breakneck speed with no thought involved, when still... peace and joy prevail.
My question is, should practice of any sort still be pursued, and who the hell would do it? The awareness watching awareness guy recommends practicing until bodily death to prevent the ego from coming back, but really there never was an ego is what is seen here. Also it is clear that my entire life has been nothing but thoughts manifesting as apparent reality, Robert says stay with silent mind and transcend the whole ball of wax, any pointers?
Answer # 3
You are also AB, no? many times seekers send in questions that have 2-3 email addresses, but sign the email with the same personal name. Assuming J and AB are the same, I am answering both conversations above.
I understand where you are. There is no sense of self as an operating entity so you ask who can direct the practice. Apprehending where you are feels wonderful and you feel you cannot lose it. But, you can and will until you become absolutely fixed in it.
The fact you ask questions and your mind is filled with thinking means that you are not stable enough.
Set aside some time each day, maybe three times a day where you do nothing except be.
Go until all thoughts about what i going on die, and you are absolutely fixed.
Then, assurance MAY come when you feel yourself die as an entity. Then, some time after that happens, you MAY be finished with practice.
When you rest too easy, too soon, you will eventually lose it. You may lose it no matter what "you" do, but then you start again knowing where you have to go.
Regarding dreams. It seems your mind does not produce visual images well. That is fantastic for you because it is the visual imaging sense that appears to hold the non existence world together for most. It is the "glue" that holds the illusion together far more than the other senses.
Just be careful now, constantly stay in your sense of existence. Don'r get distracted, especially by boredom down the way and the thinking there must be more to this
22 November 2008
From a Reader:
Hello Ed,
I enjoyed reading your new article entitled, "My Own Method." After trying and abandoning pretty much everything else, I also fell back on chanting. I wasn't trying to accomplish anything at that point -- I just had an impulse to do it and went with it. It was pretty much the only thing that kept me sane. I don't have much of a musical background, but I still love sacred music from all traditions. Someone once said that music is the next best thing to silence, but really, chanting and silence are exactly the same thing, and there's nothing better than either one.
There's really nothing anyone can do. At some point, the heart just opens and swallows us up. For some strange reason, it does seem necessary for people to put themselves through all manner of spiritual practices and hazing rituals before this happens, but none of those things really do anything except make the story of human existence a little more entertaining. I guess if too many people followed the example of Valmiki (author of the Ramayana) and went directly from being infamous criminals to a great saints, all the yogis practicing tapas would get really pissed off and start complaining to the Big Guy. We couldn't have that.
Yep, practice is absolutely necessary, for no particular reason other than that's how this drama was written: We start as an amoeba, eventually evolve to human form, get depressed, start standing on our heads and uttering mantras, get even more depressed, give up, and find eternal peace. It's a pretty straightforward formula, really.
I noticed that you suggested putting all Robert's talks on mp3 players and playing them in the morning or whenever. I think this makes as much sense as anything and will help some people. My wife loves to listen to Robert and has asked me if I can get more of his talks from somewhere other than the Infinity Institute. If you ever want to sell me an mp3 player with Robert's talks on them that I could give to her, I will take an oath to disavow all knowledge of where they came from if the advaita police ever raid my home and ask whether I got the talks from "authorized '30 year' students®." Or, if you don't want to bother, that's fine too. Everything sorts itself out in the right way eventually.
Hello Ed,
I enjoyed reading your new article entitled, "My Own Method." After trying and abandoning pretty much everything else, I also fell back on chanting. I wasn't trying to accomplish anything at that point -- I just had an impulse to do it and went with it. It was pretty much the only thing that kept me sane. I don't have much of a musical background, but I still love sacred music from all traditions. Someone once said that music is the next best thing to silence, but really, chanting and silence are exactly the same thing, and there's nothing better than either one.
There's really nothing anyone can do. At some point, the heart just opens and swallows us up. For some strange reason, it does seem necessary for people to put themselves through all manner of spiritual practices and hazing rituals before this happens, but none of those things really do anything except make the story of human existence a little more entertaining. I guess if too many people followed the example of Valmiki (author of the Ramayana) and went directly from being infamous criminals to a great saints, all the yogis practicing tapas would get really pissed off and start complaining to the Big Guy. We couldn't have that.
Yep, practice is absolutely necessary, for no particular reason other than that's how this drama was written: We start as an amoeba, eventually evolve to human form, get depressed, start standing on our heads and uttering mantras, get even more depressed, give up, and find eternal peace. It's a pretty straightforward formula, really.
I noticed that you suggested putting all Robert's talks on mp3 players and playing them in the morning or whenever. I think this makes as much sense as anything and will help some people. My wife loves to listen to Robert and has asked me if I can get more of his talks from somewhere other than the Infinity Institute. If you ever want to sell me an mp3 player with Robert's talks on them that I could give to her, I will take an oath to disavow all knowledge of where they came from if the advaita police ever raid my home and ask whether I got the talks from "authorized '30 year' students®." Or, if you don't want to bother, that's fine too. Everything sorts itself out in the right way eventually.
21 November 2008
A reader wrote:
First off, thanks for being available for questions. I recently wrote you so thanks again for the response.
Not sure where I am on any level...I am mostly self-schooled. I live alone.
Ok...I can, in a moment go into deep humility, bliss, joy and love since 2003. Sometimes drooling has occurred due to being so deep in the bliss. When I have had enough bliss (ha)...I can return to mind world. It has matured through the years.
When I sit, or spontaneously, some kind of "expansion" feeling comes into my belly heart area, heart and head. It is like a pulling back or down in the belly, contracting in the belly, heart expansion and top/sides of my head have a pulling feeling, eyes/forehead expand. Sometimes the "3rd eye?" feels like a pulling, wanting to stretch it out. This happens daily, if I allow, and sometimes spontaneously. Mind goes in the background, just being occurs. I don't know what any of this means and have been avoiding any guidance, so I can just be with it and not try to figure it out.
Since reading your site I felt it was time to ask about this. I have been at the "Who/What am I?" for 12 years and have had many awakenings including "I AM." Still caught out in the mind self but have the choice to be in the "I amness" or bliss.
Can you say where I am at, what this all sounds like to you?
I am most grateful for the guidance.
Respectfully, XXX
ED:
"Not sure where I am on any level...I am mostly self-schooled. I live alone."
Good.
"Ok...I can, in a moment go into deep humility, bliss, joy and love since 2003. Sometimes drooling has occurred due to being so deep in the bliss. When I have had enough bliss (ha)...I can return to mind world. It has matured through the years."
Then you are doing fine. You can't ask for much more, even though the process is not complete.
"When I sit, or spontaneously, some kind of "expansion" feeling comes into my belly heart area, heart and head. It is like a pulling back or down in the belly, contracting in the belly, heart expansion and top/sides of my head have a pulling feeling, eyes/forehead expand. Sometimes the "3rd eye?" feels like a pulling, wanting to stretch it out. This happens daily, if I allow, and sometimes spontaneously. Mind goes in the background, just being occurs."
This is just Kundalini often explained as an unbalanced energy process. But you are advanced enough to understand that that explanation is pure bullshit, just words. Don't worry or question it. Ignore it; just let it happen without being disturbed.
"I don't know what any of this means and have been avoiding any guidance, so I can just be with it and not try to figure it out."
You were correct. Do not try to figure it out. Just be with it.
"Since reading your site I felt it was time to ask about this. I have been at the "Who/What am I?" for 12 years and have had many awakenings including "I AM." Still caught out in the mind self but have the choice to be in the "I amness" or bliss."
"Can you say where I am at, what this all sounds like to you?"
Where you are is fine. You are doing well. Just observe, but not too passionately or with too much focus. That would just trap you more into the phenomena, not the final release.
I repeat, you are doing well.
First off, thanks for being available for questions. I recently wrote you so thanks again for the response.
Not sure where I am on any level...I am mostly self-schooled. I live alone.
Ok...I can, in a moment go into deep humility, bliss, joy and love since 2003. Sometimes drooling has occurred due to being so deep in the bliss. When I have had enough bliss (ha)...I can return to mind world. It has matured through the years.
When I sit, or spontaneously, some kind of "expansion" feeling comes into my belly heart area, heart and head. It is like a pulling back or down in the belly, contracting in the belly, heart expansion and top/sides of my head have a pulling feeling, eyes/forehead expand. Sometimes the "3rd eye?" feels like a pulling, wanting to stretch it out. This happens daily, if I allow, and sometimes spontaneously. Mind goes in the background, just being occurs. I don't know what any of this means and have been avoiding any guidance, so I can just be with it and not try to figure it out.
Since reading your site I felt it was time to ask about this. I have been at the "Who/What am I?" for 12 years and have had many awakenings including "I AM." Still caught out in the mind self but have the choice to be in the "I amness" or bliss.
Can you say where I am at, what this all sounds like to you?
I am most grateful for the guidance.
Respectfully, XXX
ED:
"Not sure where I am on any level...I am mostly self-schooled. I live alone."
Good.
"Ok...I can, in a moment go into deep humility, bliss, joy and love since 2003. Sometimes drooling has occurred due to being so deep in the bliss. When I have had enough bliss (ha)...I can return to mind world. It has matured through the years."
Then you are doing fine. You can't ask for much more, even though the process is not complete.
"When I sit, or spontaneously, some kind of "expansion" feeling comes into my belly heart area, heart and head. It is like a pulling back or down in the belly, contracting in the belly, heart expansion and top/sides of my head have a pulling feeling, eyes/forehead expand. Sometimes the "3rd eye?" feels like a pulling, wanting to stretch it out. This happens daily, if I allow, and sometimes spontaneously. Mind goes in the background, just being occurs."
This is just Kundalini often explained as an unbalanced energy process. But you are advanced enough to understand that that explanation is pure bullshit, just words. Don't worry or question it. Ignore it; just let it happen without being disturbed.
"I don't know what any of this means and have been avoiding any guidance, so I can just be with it and not try to figure it out."
You were correct. Do not try to figure it out. Just be with it.
"Since reading your site I felt it was time to ask about this. I have been at the "Who/What am I?" for 12 years and have had many awakenings including "I AM." Still caught out in the mind self but have the choice to be in the "I amness" or bliss."
"Can you say where I am at, what this all sounds like to you?"
Where you are is fine. You are doing well. Just observe, but not too passionately or with too much focus. That would just trap you more into the phenomena, not the final release.
I repeat, you are doing well.
Following the 'I'
A reader wrote:
I can rather easily get the feeling of I AM which I primarily sense in my upper chest and throat a little. The quickest way I can get to it is to follow a pleasant thought to it's source although I think I just realized a day or so ago that it works almost as well with unpleasant thoughts or fears. Anyhow, once there I can clearly sense the witness and have been working on watching the witness. It's a little tricky switching over from thinking to being and I am wondering if you have more input there. BUT mainly my question is this. The feeling of I AM feels very nice and when I "turn away" to watch the watcher I loose a lot of that nice feeling but I presume that's what I want to do?
S.
Exactly S!
However, following the false self eventually results in the real self making an appearance automatically without deliberate effort. So I suggest you continue to follow the pleasant feeling self until that burns out by itself. But you know the truth and where you are going, so don't worry about the distraction.
You can also look at someone or something and feel your emotional and tidal pull of this object, person or thing, and pay as much attention to your internal body reaction so you see/feel both at the same time.
They are not different. You will see that.
This is continuing in the feel-good way of being aware of the self as in the thorax, even though you know this is an illusion.
You have been asking solid questions regarding practice.
By the way, when you do go free, don't get stuck in that freedom as do so many and identify only with freedom.
You must always keep the welfare of others in mind and think how to teach them even when you know teaching is a lie from your newly obtained view, and "them" do not exist.
My old Zen teacher, Seung Sahn always ragged on this. When people go free, they often just rest in their sense of freedom, and become, as Robert warned, "cold fish." Then they do nothing or they become cold fish teachers with no warmth or "charisma" to carry others across.
This is not the end of your practice. You need to go beyond this. Even Ramana had difficulty with this until a second death experience in 1912.
This is important. Remember this.
Ed
03 June 2008
The Robert Adams Infinity Institute
This blog has been inactive for a while.
Infinity (1.e., Robertadamsinfinityinstitute.org) threatened to sue my former webhost for hosting the website, www.itisnotreal.com.
The Institute is a creation of Robert's wife, Nicole Adams. Nicole has turned Robert's written words, his Satsang recordings, and even all photographs of him, even those taken by me, into her family business and claims everything about Robert is hers to copyright.
The itisnotreal.com site was down for a bit. It is back up again with a new webhost. The complete story of Nicole's sordid antics can be found upon opening the site.
Nicole Adams, her sidekick Blake Warner, under the banner of the Infinity Institute want to rob the general public of access to the world teacher, Robert Adams. While it is up, the itisnotreal site gives you that access for free.
For her, it is a business only. She has set herself up to be a guru. My posting of the talks I transcribed and handed out to Satsang and turned into volumes I and II of Silence of the Heart may be hers or not, but only a court of law can determine that.
Silence of the Heart is a WONDERFUL book. Buy it, but not from Infinity.
What they offer, outside of Silence of the Heart is not Robert, but a form that they understand, which apparently is a form of Christianity.
This kind of nonsense has occurred with every famous dead spiritual teacher, including Rajnessh, Krishnamurti and even Nisargadatta. I hope this stops it with Robert's words.
This blog has been inactive for a while.
Infinity (1.e., Robertadamsinfinityinstitute.org) threatened to sue my former webhost for hosting the website, www.itisnotreal.com.
The Institute is a creation of Robert's wife, Nicole Adams. Nicole has turned Robert's written words, his Satsang recordings, and even all photographs of him, even those taken by me, into her family business and claims everything about Robert is hers to copyright.
The itisnotreal.com site was down for a bit. It is back up again with a new webhost. The complete story of Nicole's sordid antics can be found upon opening the site.
Nicole Adams, her sidekick Blake Warner, under the banner of the Infinity Institute want to rob the general public of access to the world teacher, Robert Adams. While it is up, the itisnotreal site gives you that access for free.
For her, it is a business only. She has set herself up to be a guru. My posting of the talks I transcribed and handed out to Satsang and turned into volumes I and II of Silence of the Heart may be hers or not, but only a court of law can determine that.
Silence of the Heart is a WONDERFUL book. Buy it, but not from Infinity.
What they offer, outside of Silence of the Heart is not Robert, but a form that they understand, which apparently is a form of Christianity.
This kind of nonsense has occurred with every famous dead spiritual teacher, including Rajnessh, Krishnamurti and even Nisargadatta. I hope this stops it with Robert's words.
25 July 2007
Re my problems with Infinity. From Alan:
Dear Ed, thank you for presenting Robert's teachings as direct from his own mouth as is possible. It is clear that you are a true student and direct representitive of Robert and his teachings. It is important for the world to have such a source.
It is sad to see individuals try to own and sell truth that is originally offered directly from the source and not meant for profit or copyright. It so often becomes clear that such actions invariably lead to a false presentation of the original. May Robert's work shine unhindered through all of the unfortunate discord and greed.
I for one value your presentation of your dear teacher, Robert, and his direct and immeasurably valuable teachings. In Truth,
Alan
Thank you Alan. I urge all of you contact Infinity and let them know what there actions speak about them. Maybe they will leave me alone or ask me to work cooperatively with them as I have offered to do so many times in the past. Though I do not know the purported 30 year students, I do know Nicole and have been continuously shocked by her actions.
Ed
Dear Ed, thank you for presenting Robert's teachings as direct from his own mouth as is possible. It is clear that you are a true student and direct representitive of Robert and his teachings. It is important for the world to have such a source.
It is sad to see individuals try to own and sell truth that is originally offered directly from the source and not meant for profit or copyright. It so often becomes clear that such actions invariably lead to a false presentation of the original. May Robert's work shine unhindered through all of the unfortunate discord and greed.
I for one value your presentation of your dear teacher, Robert, and his direct and immeasurably valuable teachings. In Truth,
Alan
Thank you Alan. I urge all of you contact Infinity and let them know what there actions speak about them. Maybe they will leave me alone or ask me to work cooperatively with them as I have offered to do so many times in the past. Though I do not know the purported 30 year students, I do know Nicole and have been continuously shocked by her actions.
Ed
04 June 2007
THE COLLECTED WORKS OF ROBERT ADAMS
VOLUME I
Edited by Edward Muzika
...
There are at least 250 recorded talks by Robert and about 114 transripts that I am aware of.
The Complete Volume I is almost 1,000 pages long in printed format. I will post here about half those transcripts.
Eventually, a second set of 100 will be published as volume II, and volume III will consist of all the rest plus any others that are sent to me.
In addition, I have a few hundred pages of newsletter articles published before he came to Los Angeles under the nom de plum, M. T. Mind. (Robert had a strange sense of humor.)
Robert was not exactly a disciple in the traditional sense of Ramana Maharshi. He was awakened at age 14 and went to India five years later. But it was from Ramana that he finally understood the nature of his awakening.
Robert was the most unusual man I ever met. He was not of this world. He left no trace. He was unknown and unknowable. He shunned public attention and therefore was little known when he was alive.
He didn’t want many students. He said he wanted ten who would teach after him. Because he was ill and could not work, his shunning public recognition left him in relative poverty. He said he couldn’t care less, and if it were not for his wife and daughters, he would not do anything.
He’d sit for hours at a time looking out his window at Capitol Butte in Sedona, not moving his eyes or blinking. He was always, as he told me, in Sahaja Samadhi.
Most around him had only the dimmest awareness of his state of being, Turiya, the Fourth State of eternal rest in Self wherein nothing existed as objects away from him. The external world did not exist. Others did not exist for him as something apart, objective. All was Self alone.
He taught only two ways to awaken from the dreaming (imagination, thinking, imagining process, Maya) unreality—self-inquiry, wherein the sense of I, the sense of existence, the sense of being alive was followed inward, down through the false I tied to the body and human existence, to the Great I of the absolute, unmoving Self.
All of his talks attend to these two matters: the world is not real, so leave it alone; your true Self has nothing to do with your body or humanity, and the experience of the root Self is attained by self-inquiry or by complete surrender to the guru.
When you read Robert’s talks, it is best to read very slowly and let the words wash through you and trickle down to the lowest level of your being. Do not be in a hurry. Approach Silence in silence. The Self is subtle, so you must become subtle, quiet, watching so that it can take you away, entirely away to the other shore beyond life and death.
Ed Muzika
In addition, I have a few hundred pages of newsletter articles published before he came to Los Angeles under the nom de plum, M. T. Mind. (Robert had a strange sense of humor.)
Robert was not exactly a disciple in the traditional sense of Ramana Maharshi. He was awakened at age 14 and went to India five years later. But it was from Ramana that he finally understood the nature of his awakening.
Robert was the most unusual man I ever met. He was not of this world. He left no trace. He was unknown and unknowable. He shunned public attention and therefore was little known when he was alive.
He didn’t want many students. He said he wanted ten who would teach after him. Because he was ill and could not work, his shunning public recognition left him in relative poverty. He said he couldn’t care less, and if it were not for his wife and daughters, he would not do anything.
He’d sit for hours at a time looking out his window at Capitol Butte in Sedona, not moving his eyes or blinking. He was always, as he told me, in Sahaja Samadhi.
Most around him had only the dimmest awareness of his state of being, Turiya, the Fourth State of eternal rest in Self wherein nothing existed as objects away from him. The external world did not exist. Others did not exist for him as something apart, objective. All was Self alone.
He taught only two ways to awaken from the dreaming (imagination, thinking, imagining process, Maya) unreality—self-inquiry, wherein the sense of I, the sense of existence, the sense of being alive was followed inward, down through the false I tied to the body and human existence, to the Great I of the absolute, unmoving Self.
All of his talks attend to these two matters: the world is not real, so leave it alone; your true Self has nothing to do with your body or humanity, and the experience of the root Self is attained by self-inquiry or by complete surrender to the guru.
When you read Robert’s talks, it is best to read very slowly and let the words wash through you and trickle down to the lowest level of your being. Do not be in a hurry. Approach Silence in silence. The Self is subtle, so you must become subtle, quiet, watching so that it can take you away, entirely away to the other shore beyond life and death.
Ed Muzika
23 February 2007
.
Question: Can we not interchange the word "fear" and "anxiety", anxiety is a formof fear. I find the word "fear", i.e. (I Am That) an obstacle to "going beyond" being "desire for the false, and fear of the true", what remains? "A sequence of desires and fears and inane blunders," On one page alone and throughout, in the title of several chapters, and implied by Nisarga and Balsekar, that without an intense experience, realization is impossible and what is more intense than the experiencewe call "fear," the reason we run from pain.
Ed:
Please restate what you are saying more concisely.
Forget about what Nisargadatta and Balsekar wrote. They cannot help you to find yourself. They are expressing their understanding. It will not help you understand yourself. Only finding your depest core will solve your confusion and fear. As a matter of fact, the only value Maharaj and Robert provide is a real-life example of someone who has gone beyond. What they say is almost irrelevant and causes promlems for seekers.
Remember, Maharaj said his teacher told him he was not his body, and to only attend to his sense of being. He did little more than that for three years. Then he had the experiences expressed in his little book on this site entitled "Self-Knowledge and Self-Realization."
You can't fingure any of this out with your mind. What you are is entirely beyond the mind. Just look into--feel into--you sense of being. All Advaita teachers advise this route. Only attend to yourself.
Question: Can we not interchange the word "fear" and "anxiety", anxiety is a formof fear. I find the word "fear", i.e. (I Am That) an obstacle to "going beyond" being "desire for the false, and fear of the true", what remains? "A sequence of desires and fears and inane blunders," On one page alone and throughout, in the title of several chapters, and implied by Nisarga and Balsekar, that without an intense experience, realization is impossible and what is more intense than the experiencewe call "fear," the reason we run from pain.
Ed:
Please restate what you are saying more concisely.
Forget about what Nisargadatta and Balsekar wrote. They cannot help you to find yourself. They are expressing their understanding. It will not help you understand yourself. Only finding your depest core will solve your confusion and fear. As a matter of fact, the only value Maharaj and Robert provide is a real-life example of someone who has gone beyond. What they say is almost irrelevant and causes promlems for seekers.
Remember, Maharaj said his teacher told him he was not his body, and to only attend to his sense of being. He did little more than that for three years. Then he had the experiences expressed in his little book on this site entitled "Self-Knowledge and Self-Realization."
You can't fingure any of this out with your mind. What you are is entirely beyond the mind. Just look into--feel into--you sense of being. All Advaita teachers advise this route. Only attend to yourself.
19 February 2007
.
Ed,I'm really sorry to take up so much of your time. Your response was, once again, very helpful and right on the mark. I too am "mind-smart" and I find myself wanting to read and study everything without actually doing the work of self-enquiry!
What caught my attention, and what I wanted to ask you about, was this statement....."Practice diligently, but not too hard. Too hard will cause you to lose the way too." Find the middle way of practice.
How can a person practice "too hard"? From the things I've read, such as Ramana and Nisargadatta, they recommend practicing every spare moment of your life and even while doing your worldly work. What you say makes a lot of sense and the "middle way" definitely seems like the best approach, but I was just wondering what you meant by "too hard" so I could avoid that "trap" also
If you don't have the time to respond, I understand totally. Thank you for your replies Ed.All the best to you,
A,
Long practice is o.k., just avoid intense practice that requires a great use of the will to search for I.
Intense effort is counter productive, you'll wear out and eventually give up. Also, is causes a lot of body-mind stress which absolutley prevents you from finding the target.
Gently bring the attention back to the sense of existence. If it falls away, don't get angry with yourself.
Pratice as long as you can without stress.
Middle way is better expressed as the gentle and persistent way,
Ed
Ed,I'm really sorry to take up so much of your time. Your response was, once again, very helpful and right on the mark. I too am "mind-smart" and I find myself wanting to read and study everything without actually doing the work of self-enquiry!
What caught my attention, and what I wanted to ask you about, was this statement....."Practice diligently, but not too hard. Too hard will cause you to lose the way too." Find the middle way of practice.
How can a person practice "too hard"? From the things I've read, such as Ramana and Nisargadatta, they recommend practicing every spare moment of your life and even while doing your worldly work. What you say makes a lot of sense and the "middle way" definitely seems like the best approach, but I was just wondering what you meant by "too hard" so I could avoid that "trap" also
If you don't have the time to respond, I understand totally. Thank you for your replies Ed.All the best to you,
A,
Long practice is o.k., just avoid intense practice that requires a great use of the will to search for I.
Intense effort is counter productive, you'll wear out and eventually give up. Also, is causes a lot of body-mind stress which absolutley prevents you from finding the target.
Gently bring the attention back to the sense of existence. If it falls away, don't get angry with yourself.
Pratice as long as you can without stress.
Middle way is better expressed as the gentle and persistent way,
Ed
16 February 2007
.
Hi Ed-
I found your site on Robert a few months ago andreally love it. Hearing recordings of his talks is areal treat. My reason for writing you is, youmentioned that somewhere along the line you talked with UG Krishnamurti on the telephone. I am simply curious about what he was like and what you guys conversed about.
I realize your conversation was relevant to you, but UG has really sparked a sort of fire in me. His words seem to destroy everything!! Iremember feeling a bit strange not wanting to read myNisargadatta books so much anymore after hearing UG talk, but I realized more and more he was just an incredibly straight shooter and telling things as theywere.
Nothing even remotely cherished is safe with him!! But these things that are cherished seem to bethe foundations of our own illusions, so basically, UG can have quite an effect. So anyway, if you can recall and don't mind, I'd love to hear what your experiences with him were. Thanks for the time and the website!
Al
Hi Al,
I talked to him maybe 15 years ago. Don't remember much about what we talked about.
But, he sounded like a chatty old-indian man and nothing to special. No bolts of lightning, etc.
I understand what his awakening was and can see how it happened. His realization was not the same as mine but is 100% complimnentary.
U.G. cannot help you find your way out. He is trying to say the mind is not the way out. Thta was his way of getting out but probably not your way.
Find one approach only and go with it. Do the practices, examine your own sens eof existence.
Read A Light on the Teachings of Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Ramana Maharshi Part I, both by Sadhu Om. Get them from AHAM.con. Tell them I sent you. The books are cheap. These are great people. And, of course, read Robert. Both Sadhu Om and Robert give you a way out--or so it will appear.
Ed
Hi Ed-
I found your site on Robert a few months ago andreally love it. Hearing recordings of his talks is areal treat. My reason for writing you is, youmentioned that somewhere along the line you talked with UG Krishnamurti on the telephone. I am simply curious about what he was like and what you guys conversed about.
I realize your conversation was relevant to you, but UG has really sparked a sort of fire in me. His words seem to destroy everything!! Iremember feeling a bit strange not wanting to read myNisargadatta books so much anymore after hearing UG talk, but I realized more and more he was just an incredibly straight shooter and telling things as theywere.
Nothing even remotely cherished is safe with him!! But these things that are cherished seem to bethe foundations of our own illusions, so basically, UG can have quite an effect. So anyway, if you can recall and don't mind, I'd love to hear what your experiences with him were. Thanks for the time and the website!
Al
Hi Al,
I talked to him maybe 15 years ago. Don't remember much about what we talked about.
But, he sounded like a chatty old-indian man and nothing to special. No bolts of lightning, etc.
I understand what his awakening was and can see how it happened. His realization was not the same as mine but is 100% complimnentary.
U.G. cannot help you find your way out. He is trying to say the mind is not the way out. Thta was his way of getting out but probably not your way.
Find one approach only and go with it. Do the practices, examine your own sens eof existence.
Read A Light on the Teachings of Ramana Maharshi and the Path of Ramana Maharshi Part I, both by Sadhu Om. Get them from AHAM.con. Tell them I sent you. The books are cheap. These are great people. And, of course, read Robert. Both Sadhu Om and Robert give you a way out--or so it will appear.
Ed
21 January 2007
Dear Ed
I have studied I Am That daily and almost exclusively for about ayear. I want to go deeper in my understanding of this teaching. It ishow I discovered your site. Trying to think of a question to makecontact with you and your web offering, what comes up is the naggingquestion about Nisargadata's smoking and, as I learn from your site,his and Jean Dunn's death by smoking. In spite of the "I am not mybody" and "I am not my mind" consciousness, I find it difficult toreconcile their teachings with this enslavement and bondage and surelyan unnecessarily painful death
Thank you,DKK
Dear DKK,
Feel free to ask away anytime. I am here.
Re Maharaj and Jean's smoking.
You do understand. You have nothing to do with your body or its pain. All bodies are going to die, painful or not.
To a Jnani, the body is no more than an image on a movie screen. Would he care whether a character smoked or not, or died of throat cancer? The Jnani knows he is not the body. He does not care. If his body rejects smoking for health reasons, that's fine with him. If his body chooses to smoke. It is fine with him.
You are making his non-problem into your problem. Only go backwards into yourself and see who you are. Then you will see it is all a joke and that only you are.
Follow the sense of I to the deepest part of your being.
Ed
I have studied I Am That daily and almost exclusively for about ayear. I want to go deeper in my understanding of this teaching. It ishow I discovered your site. Trying to think of a question to makecontact with you and your web offering, what comes up is the naggingquestion about Nisargadata's smoking and, as I learn from your site,his and Jean Dunn's death by smoking. In spite of the "I am not mybody" and "I am not my mind" consciousness, I find it difficult toreconcile their teachings with this enslavement and bondage and surelyan unnecessarily painful death
Thank you,DKK
Dear DKK,
Feel free to ask away anytime. I am here.
Re Maharaj and Jean's smoking.
You do understand. You have nothing to do with your body or its pain. All bodies are going to die, painful or not.
To a Jnani, the body is no more than an image on a movie screen. Would he care whether a character smoked or not, or died of throat cancer? The Jnani knows he is not the body. He does not care. If his body rejects smoking for health reasons, that's fine with him. If his body chooses to smoke. It is fine with him.
You are making his non-problem into your problem. Only go backwards into yourself and see who you are. Then you will see it is all a joke and that only you are.
Follow the sense of I to the deepest part of your being.
Ed
Hi Ed,
I read the recent post on having a living guru and your reply.
Boy Ed! You aren't making this easier!
You say that neither Ramana nor Robert are available, find yourself and you find them.
Then you say that it's a hundred times better to love and serve a guru, and that it MUST be a living guru.The problem is how do you find a living guru, and how do you know that he is a Jnani.
You keep looking--but not too hard. Attend to your own self. Find the subject, the looker, the listener.
I know that it is up to the student, but it doesn't make it easier. Enlightened individuals don't say they are when asked about it.Yet it seems to me that those that followed Robert, like you, KNEW that he was a Jnani. Doesn't it make it easier when you know?
Of course it makes it easier. But though I was struck by Robert in the beginning, it was well over a year before I really knew and trusted.
Ramana, Nisargargadatta and some others, those that went to India for example, KNEW they were meeting Jnanis.
No, they heard that from others. Many who stayed with these gurus never accepted them as such. It is all a game anyway; they don't exist and neither do you--not as you think.
What about us here in North America? Do we have to go to India?
I would never go to India for a number of reasons. I met all of my teachers--ALL--right here in the USA and Robert in LA. If you can find a true guru in Los Angeles, you can find them anywhere.
I would not put much stock in gurus who do workshops, seminars, traveling circuses. Ramana, Nisargadatta, Rajneesh, Robert became nailed down sooner or later. You can go see them that do not do side shows, or wait for one of their students to do a side show in your town.
I read the recent post on having a living guru and your reply.
Boy Ed! You aren't making this easier!
You say that neither Ramana nor Robert are available, find yourself and you find them.
Then you say that it's a hundred times better to love and serve a guru, and that it MUST be a living guru.The problem is how do you find a living guru, and how do you know that he is a Jnani.
You keep looking--but not too hard. Attend to your own self. Find the subject, the looker, the listener.
I know that it is up to the student, but it doesn't make it easier. Enlightened individuals don't say they are when asked about it.Yet it seems to me that those that followed Robert, like you, KNEW that he was a Jnani. Doesn't it make it easier when you know?
Of course it makes it easier. But though I was struck by Robert in the beginning, it was well over a year before I really knew and trusted.
Ramana, Nisargargadatta and some others, those that went to India for example, KNEW they were meeting Jnanis.
No, they heard that from others. Many who stayed with these gurus never accepted them as such. It is all a game anyway; they don't exist and neither do you--not as you think.
What about us here in North America? Do we have to go to India?
I would never go to India for a number of reasons. I met all of my teachers--ALL--right here in the USA and Robert in LA. If you can find a true guru in Los Angeles, you can find them anywhere.
I would not put much stock in gurus who do workshops, seminars, traveling circuses. Ramana, Nisargadatta, Rajneesh, Robert became nailed down sooner or later. You can go see them that do not do side shows, or wait for one of their students to do a side show in your town.
20 January 2007
Ed,
After a first read through most of the site I just wish I could
hang out with you a bit rather than do email. In any case, It might be
good to tell you a few things to set the frame for later questions.
For many years I was intensely involved in Siddha Yoga but
eventually left it. I didn't miss what you had to say about Muktananda, and
I understand and accept the perspective as probably true. But for
me, there was that power that promised transformation. It existed
and that's all I knew directly. The promise did not quite live up to
expectations, granted. In fact, ironically, my first shaktipat
experience was more dramatic than almost anything that happened later.
Do you have any thoughts about any of this, Ed?
Thanks, by the way, for sharing all of that information about
Robert. Just knowing such people exist is helpful.
John
-------------------------------------------------
Ed wrote:
I found Muktananda to be superficial. Muktananda et
al emphasized experiences, Robert and I, n-experience.
Ed
Dear Ed,
My last girlfiriend before marriage used to fly down from New York
to Sedona once a year to be with Lester Levenson who created the
Sedona Method. I've got a bunch of recorded talks that the ex brought
back with her. But I just didn't feel a pull. There seemed to be a
big emphasis on things like "financial abundance," which even now
on their website is at the top of the list of things that can come
from the method.
Ed wrote:
The use the sales technique to sell themselves and make a living.
They would never make a living on seekers alone. The technique is
not bad at all, but I think the followers have to let go of letting
go as a technique.
----------------------------------------------------------
John wrote:
Since my orientation has always been yogic, it might be a fair
question to ask if I have any sense at all of what you're really
talking about. Maybe only in a negative way, in feeling some
disatisfaction with that whole pursuit. Well, let's put it this way, what I do
understand is what you and Robert are up to is something of a
different order from that kundalini yoga path and that it's important
not to confuse the two.
Ed wrote:
Absolutely. Kundalini is about body, energy and experiences. Jnana
is about finding that which preceeds all experiences and the body
itself. That is, finding your unborn nature. Like apples vs.
mountains (or tablewear for that matter).
John wrote:
How meaningfully you can get to know somebody this way is
debatable, but its better than nothing. Maybe you have super powers and can
extract a hologram of my entire life from my words. I used to
believe that gurus had that ability.
Ed wrote:
If I had the super powers I'd be too lazy to use them except to
make money gambling or the stock market so I didn't have to do
anything anymore.
Ed
John wrote:
Ed,
I just got up from meditation. Lately I've been going into it
holding some essence of you and Robert in my mind's eye. Af first
there's a kind of opening into stillness or neutrality, but then the
shakti rushes into that space with more voltage then I've felt in
years. It occilates back and forth like this - a brief moment of
stillness then a lot of movement. It's like there is some internal
switching point I've just become aware of that maybe would lead into
silence but as soon as I find it.. zap! Epilepsy.
Ed wrote:
Hi John,
Interesting phenomena, I've never experienced that. But, it means
nothing. It will pass. It is temporary and has nothing to do with
your task.
Just feel for your sense of existence, not of the body, but of you,
and attend to that.
This is really a quite subtle exercise, but the Self is subtle and
quiet. Stay there.
Ed
After a first read through most of the site I just wish I could
hang out with you a bit rather than do email. In any case, It might be
good to tell you a few things to set the frame for later questions.
For many years I was intensely involved in Siddha Yoga but
eventually left it. I didn't miss what you had to say about Muktananda, and
I understand and accept the perspective as probably true. But for
me, there was that power that promised transformation. It existed
and that's all I knew directly. The promise did not quite live up to
expectations, granted. In fact, ironically, my first shaktipat
experience was more dramatic than almost anything that happened later.
Do you have any thoughts about any of this, Ed?
Thanks, by the way, for sharing all of that information about
Robert. Just knowing such people exist is helpful.
John
-------------------------------------------------
Ed wrote:
I found Muktananda to be superficial. Muktananda et
al emphasized experiences, Robert and I, n-experience.
Ed
Dear Ed,
My last girlfiriend before marriage used to fly down from New York
to Sedona once a year to be with Lester Levenson who created the
Sedona Method. I've got a bunch of recorded talks that the ex brought
back with her. But I just didn't feel a pull. There seemed to be a
big emphasis on things like "financial abundance," which even now
on their website is at the top of the list of things that can come
from the method.
Ed wrote:
The use the sales technique to sell themselves and make a living.
They would never make a living on seekers alone. The technique is
not bad at all, but I think the followers have to let go of letting
go as a technique.
----------------------------------------------------------
John wrote:
Since my orientation has always been yogic, it might be a fair
question to ask if I have any sense at all of what you're really
talking about. Maybe only in a negative way, in feeling some
disatisfaction with that whole pursuit. Well, let's put it this way, what I do
understand is what you and Robert are up to is something of a
different order from that kundalini yoga path and that it's important
not to confuse the two.
Ed wrote:
Absolutely. Kundalini is about body, energy and experiences. Jnana
is about finding that which preceeds all experiences and the body
itself. That is, finding your unborn nature. Like apples vs.
mountains (or tablewear for that matter).
John wrote:
How meaningfully you can get to know somebody this way is
debatable, but its better than nothing. Maybe you have super powers and can
extract a hologram of my entire life from my words. I used to
believe that gurus had that ability.
Ed wrote:
If I had the super powers I'd be too lazy to use them except to
make money gambling or the stock market so I didn't have to do
anything anymore.
Ed
John wrote:
Ed,
I just got up from meditation. Lately I've been going into it
holding some essence of you and Robert in my mind's eye. Af first
there's a kind of opening into stillness or neutrality, but then the
shakti rushes into that space with more voltage then I've felt in
years. It occilates back and forth like this - a brief moment of
stillness then a lot of movement. It's like there is some internal
switching point I've just become aware of that maybe would lead into
silence but as soon as I find it.. zap! Epilepsy.
Ed wrote:
Hi John,
Interesting phenomena, I've never experienced that. But, it means
nothing. It will pass. It is temporary and has nothing to do with
your task.
Just feel for your sense of existence, not of the body, but of you,
and attend to that.
This is really a quite subtle exercise, but the Self is subtle and
quiet. Stay there.
Ed
17 January 2007
One more question for the pile. Do you think Robert is as much available for people who never met him as he is for you?
No.
I wonder this but then think, if he is, then so is Ramana and why not just go back to Ramana?
Neither are available except both are yourself. Find yourself and you find them.
Thing is, Robert is easier to relate to because he was American.
Yes. He is easier to relate to but they say the same thing. Ramana works are very traditional and hard to follow for Westreners.
Also, robert speaks on different levels for different people. Therefore, don't ponder on apparent contradictions. Just let the words in and go where they may.
In Silence of the Heart he says that to love and serve the guru is higher and quicker than doing inquiry or anything else.
Right. One hundred times better.
He also said you need to focus on one teacher. Are either of those things possible when there is no body to relate to anymore (especially for those who never had any physical contact with him)?
No. It must be a live guru. He was adamnant about that.
But then there's you. I don't know, are you following after Robert now?
No, his body is dead, mine alive. I do not hold a candle to him. He is as far beyond my attainment as an elephant above an ant, yet we are one and the same. I follow after him as I attend to myself.
That is, have you taken on the same function or do you see it more as maintaining the memory of Robert and to providing insight when people ask for it.
Both and neither. it is up to the student. Robert had no function other than that given to him by others. In his mind, he was nothing, he did nothing; people only thougth he did. I am nothing, neither are you. You don't exist. Be happy.
No.
I wonder this but then think, if he is, then so is Ramana and why not just go back to Ramana?
Neither are available except both are yourself. Find yourself and you find them.
Thing is, Robert is easier to relate to because he was American.
Yes. He is easier to relate to but they say the same thing. Ramana works are very traditional and hard to follow for Westreners.
Also, robert speaks on different levels for different people. Therefore, don't ponder on apparent contradictions. Just let the words in and go where they may.
In Silence of the Heart he says that to love and serve the guru is higher and quicker than doing inquiry or anything else.
Right. One hundred times better.
He also said you need to focus on one teacher. Are either of those things possible when there is no body to relate to anymore (especially for those who never had any physical contact with him)?
No. It must be a live guru. He was adamnant about that.
But then there's you. I don't know, are you following after Robert now?
No, his body is dead, mine alive. I do not hold a candle to him. He is as far beyond my attainment as an elephant above an ant, yet we are one and the same. I follow after him as I attend to myself.
That is, have you taken on the same function or do you see it more as maintaining the memory of Robert and to providing insight when people ask for it.
Both and neither. it is up to the student. Robert had no function other than that given to him by others. In his mind, he was nothing, he did nothing; people only thougth he did. I am nothing, neither are you. You don't exist. Be happy.
15 January 2007
From G and my response,
Hi Ed,
Can I ask about Self-awareness, Being, "I"...all of this. "Self-Enquiry" brings you to the I-thought, which will bring it back to the heart. This will eventually destroy the I am the body, the I-thought...the ego.
Don't make it so complicated. I-thought is a fiction, only Am is. Staying in the sense of existence--or the feeling I--will get you to the same place--knowledge first hand that you are beyond the body and world.
Staying in the self, or Self-Awareness as much as you can through self-Enquiry or through other means, I have difficulties in understand what are the best ways to do this. Especially following the "I" to it's source, the right side of the heart.
Absolutely forget the heart. That was a ruse by Ramana to turn people inward. The real inward is not into a place in the body because the body does not exist as an independent entity, rather go into That which cognizes and is aware, the sense of I, or the unformed matrix of Am-ness. Just resting in self, going deeper into silence to its deepest level. Everything in the world is just “noise” added onto your true nature. Some go into that silence by “looking” within, others by “feeling” in, sort of falling backwards into your true self.
Briefly, How to get the I-Though to go back at the source...the heart.
How to stay in Self-Awareness.
-G.
You don't get the I-thought to go back to the source. Concentrating on the I-thought makes it real. Ask once "Who am I?, look within and do nothing more. Repeat every minute or two. After a while, the minutes will stretch into many minutes. Just keep going. You want to attend to where the I-thought comes from, not the thought itself.
FORGET ABOUT THE HEART.
Ed
Hi Ed,
Can I ask about Self-awareness, Being, "I"...all of this. "Self-Enquiry" brings you to the I-thought, which will bring it back to the heart. This will eventually destroy the I am the body, the I-thought...the ego.
Don't make it so complicated. I-thought is a fiction, only Am is. Staying in the sense of existence--or the feeling I--will get you to the same place--knowledge first hand that you are beyond the body and world.
Staying in the self, or Self-Awareness as much as you can through self-Enquiry or through other means, I have difficulties in understand what are the best ways to do this. Especially following the "I" to it's source, the right side of the heart.
Absolutely forget the heart. That was a ruse by Ramana to turn people inward. The real inward is not into a place in the body because the body does not exist as an independent entity, rather go into That which cognizes and is aware, the sense of I, or the unformed matrix of Am-ness. Just resting in self, going deeper into silence to its deepest level. Everything in the world is just “noise” added onto your true nature. Some go into that silence by “looking” within, others by “feeling” in, sort of falling backwards into your true self.
Briefly, How to get the I-Though to go back at the source...the heart.
How to stay in Self-Awareness.
-G.
You don't get the I-thought to go back to the source. Concentrating on the I-thought makes it real. Ask once "Who am I?, look within and do nothing more. Repeat every minute or two. After a while, the minutes will stretch into many minutes. Just keep going. You want to attend to where the I-thought comes from, not the thought itself.
FORGET ABOUT THE HEART.
Ed
14 January 2007
Falling Into Self
Dearest Ed,
I'm good I am reading Roberts'book and a little 80 pg. book called "the lazy mans guide to enlightenment" by a guy Thaddeus Golas. These are the only books I read, and most comfortable with. I am not doing a dedicated meditation but I like self-inquiry. When I go into meditation, sometimes I get strange flashes of light. I don't know what that is if anything. But I like best just abiding in the nothing. It feels like falling backwards or vibrating. I could ask you a hundered stupid questions but I think they are all pointless anyway.
D
Hi D
Ask any pointless questions you want. Everything is without a point anyway.
Glad you are doing well.
Yes, abiding in nothingness is the best.
That is exactly how it should feel, like falling backwards into yourself--the first person.
The flashes of light are Kundalini expressions, so don't pay much attention to them.
Write anytime.
Ed
Dearest Ed,
I'm good I am reading Roberts'book and a little 80 pg. book called "the lazy mans guide to enlightenment" by a guy Thaddeus Golas. These are the only books I read, and most comfortable with. I am not doing a dedicated meditation but I like self-inquiry. When I go into meditation, sometimes I get strange flashes of light. I don't know what that is if anything. But I like best just abiding in the nothing. It feels like falling backwards or vibrating. I could ask you a hundered stupid questions but I think they are all pointless anyway.
D
Hi D
Ask any pointless questions you want. Everything is without a point anyway.
Glad you are doing well.
Yes, abiding in nothingness is the best.
That is exactly how it should feel, like falling backwards into yourself--the first person.
The flashes of light are Kundalini expressions, so don't pay much attention to them.
Write anytime.
Ed
07 January 2007
.
Dear Ed,
This character is practicing looking into the Illuminated Space behind the 3rd eye chakra 2-3 times daily. Very early or very late in the day seems the most productive. With introspection (microanalysis) it is realized that the Awareness that is present, comes before and observes: thoughts, feelings, emotions, bodily sensations and to some extent "my" personality. I know that I am not any of these, since I can observe them.
Right On--keep going.
Looking from this space into the body reveals only more space. Bodily sensations are sensed to be coming from discrete locations in that space, but nothing solid is percieved in it. Is this what you described as the memory map of our bodies? Continued introspection brings the point home, that all experience in the "ego mind" are observed or experienced only throught our senses, neural net, ect, colored through our beliefs and positionalities and finally compared to past experiences and memories, so we can lablel and catagorize them. We experience nothing directly in the would, so there is no proof that the world is Real, or that even I exist.
Too much conceptualization. All experiences are not observed through our body-mind. Body-mind itself is as unreal as the phenomenal world. Only Consciousness exists--EVERYTHING is contained and only an image in Consciousness.
This being understood, i rest in the empyness and experience the almost blissfull awareness that Awareness is all there is. There is still the sensation of being a separate sense of Awareness,, surrounded by nothing. I do ask the question "Who A I" or What am I? Silence is always the answer.
Rest only in observing the Awareness. Be aware of Awareness. This is Self-Awareness, Abiding in Self.
I have been able to fall forward, but not backwards. It leaves me dizzy and a little disoriented. The experience of falling into a bright sun, as you had discribed did cause a subtle shift in awareness...but still "no cigar" (and no sun tan). No expectation is attatched to this practice...i just enjoy the blissfull escape, but the desire for Awakening to happen is all that i ever think about.
Forget about falling forward of backward; it is a help for some. Juest rest in observing awareness. You are doing very well. Keep it up. Do not deviate.
Dear Ed,
This character is practicing looking into the Illuminated Space behind the 3rd eye chakra 2-3 times daily. Very early or very late in the day seems the most productive. With introspection (microanalysis) it is realized that the Awareness that is present, comes before and observes: thoughts, feelings, emotions, bodily sensations and to some extent "my" personality. I know that I am not any of these, since I can observe them.
Right On--keep going.
Looking from this space into the body reveals only more space. Bodily sensations are sensed to be coming from discrete locations in that space, but nothing solid is percieved in it. Is this what you described as the memory map of our bodies? Continued introspection brings the point home, that all experience in the "ego mind" are observed or experienced only throught our senses, neural net, ect, colored through our beliefs and positionalities and finally compared to past experiences and memories, so we can lablel and catagorize them. We experience nothing directly in the would, so there is no proof that the world is Real, or that even I exist.
Too much conceptualization. All experiences are not observed through our body-mind. Body-mind itself is as unreal as the phenomenal world. Only Consciousness exists--EVERYTHING is contained and only an image in Consciousness.
This being understood, i rest in the empyness and experience the almost blissfull awareness that Awareness is all there is. There is still the sensation of being a separate sense of Awareness,, surrounded by nothing. I do ask the question "Who A I" or What am I? Silence is always the answer.
Rest only in observing the Awareness. Be aware of Awareness. This is Self-Awareness, Abiding in Self.
I have been able to fall forward, but not backwards. It leaves me dizzy and a little disoriented. The experience of falling into a bright sun, as you had discribed did cause a subtle shift in awareness...but still "no cigar" (and no sun tan). No expectation is attatched to this practice...i just enjoy the blissfull escape, but the desire for Awakening to happen is all that i ever think about.
Forget about falling forward of backward; it is a help for some. Juest rest in observing awareness. You are doing very well. Keep it up. Do not deviate.
06 January 2007
Psychotropic Medications-
-
I have a new question. I have suffered from severe anxiety and panic attacks for most of my life. I am currently taking low doses of a sedative to basically keep my mind "even". At this point, I'm not even sure that I could maintain even the bare minimum of concentration required for any type of meditation without their use. My question is this: Do you think that the use of such sedatives (xanax and the like), would or could somehow prevent one from attaining Realization?
No, neither anti-anxiety or anti-depressive meds would prevent self-realization. They affect the body-mind and you are not that. You are far beyond that. Only attend to your own sens eof being or existence.
Please don't consider this medical advice in any way, shape, or form. I know you're not a doctor, and I'm not asking you this question on the basis of whether or not I should continuing taking the sedatives.
But I have a doctorate in clinical psychology and was trained to be a psychologist even though not so licensed. I am well aware of the effects of many psychotropic medications.
Your answer will have no impact on that, so rest assured. However, I would like to know if there is any possible effect on the attainment of Realization with their use. Eventually, I will stop taking them. What I was hoping to do was to conquer the fear beforehand, much like Bill W. or whatever his name is (the founder of AA), only stopped drinking AFTER his experience. I still have other fears that surface that I work through, so it's not as if I'm completing avoiding working through that.
I emphasize meds will not affect enlightenment. Even alcoholism does not. These are of the body. You are not the body. There will be lots of changes before and after enlightenment. Do not worry about where you are now. Where you are now, what you are doing in terms of eating, meds, drinking, etc., will not impact your enlightnment. Of course, doing without bad habits helps, such as eating meat, too much alcohol, etc.
I know there are some like Ram Dass who claim to have attained some Realization with the use of psychedelics and the like. So, I would assume that since the body isn't me, nor is the mind, etc, that the use of these medications to enable me to concentrate at all wouldn't have an effect on Realization, but I don't know for sure. Thanks in advance.
No effect whatsoever. Still, not eating meat, cheese, eggs, etc. does lighten the mind a lot for some reason. I felt a huge rush of increased self-esteem and lowered guilt when I stopped eating meat many years ago.
Ed
-
I have a new question. I have suffered from severe anxiety and panic attacks for most of my life. I am currently taking low doses of a sedative to basically keep my mind "even". At this point, I'm not even sure that I could maintain even the bare minimum of concentration required for any type of meditation without their use. My question is this: Do you think that the use of such sedatives (xanax and the like), would or could somehow prevent one from attaining Realization?
No, neither anti-anxiety or anti-depressive meds would prevent self-realization. They affect the body-mind and you are not that. You are far beyond that. Only attend to your own sens eof being or existence.
Please don't consider this medical advice in any way, shape, or form. I know you're not a doctor, and I'm not asking you this question on the basis of whether or not I should continuing taking the sedatives.
But I have a doctorate in clinical psychology and was trained to be a psychologist even though not so licensed. I am well aware of the effects of many psychotropic medications.
Your answer will have no impact on that, so rest assured. However, I would like to know if there is any possible effect on the attainment of Realization with their use. Eventually, I will stop taking them. What I was hoping to do was to conquer the fear beforehand, much like Bill W. or whatever his name is (the founder of AA), only stopped drinking AFTER his experience. I still have other fears that surface that I work through, so it's not as if I'm completing avoiding working through that.
I emphasize meds will not affect enlightenment. Even alcoholism does not. These are of the body. You are not the body. There will be lots of changes before and after enlightenment. Do not worry about where you are now. Where you are now, what you are doing in terms of eating, meds, drinking, etc., will not impact your enlightnment. Of course, doing without bad habits helps, such as eating meat, too much alcohol, etc.
I know there are some like Ram Dass who claim to have attained some Realization with the use of psychedelics and the like. So, I would assume that since the body isn't me, nor is the mind, etc, that the use of these medications to enable me to concentrate at all wouldn't have an effect on Realization, but I don't know for sure. Thanks in advance.
No effect whatsoever. Still, not eating meat, cheese, eggs, etc. does lighten the mind a lot for some reason. I felt a huge rush of increased self-esteem and lowered guilt when I stopped eating meat many years ago.
Ed
31 December 2006
There are two interesting sites you might want to visit.
Michael James is the translator/editor of Sadhu Om's Path of Sri Ramana Part I and II. I have read Part I and find it in complete agreement with Robert's more advanced teachings on how to practice. Michael has started a brand new site and has a free PDF version of a book he wrote online as well as two other Ramana-related books. I recommend this site.
.
.
Charlie Hayes is a man of boundless energy. The illustrated PDF version of the third "edition" of Nisargadatta booklet should be available there. Or, I can send it to you by email.
www.awake-now.com
Michael James is the translator/editor of Sadhu Om's Path of Sri Ramana Part I and II. I have read Part I and find it in complete agreement with Robert's more advanced teachings on how to practice. Michael has started a brand new site and has a free PDF version of a book he wrote online as well as two other Ramana-related books. I recommend this site.
.
.
Charlie Hayes is a man of boundless energy. The illustrated PDF version of the third "edition" of Nisargadatta booklet should be available there. Or, I can send it to you by email.
www.awake-now.com
16 December 2006
The Epitome of Practice
Hi Ed,
I've just found your site today and read some of the information there. I have read many authors of what is called "The Absolute". People like Walter Lanyon, Lillian De Waters, Joel Goldsmith, Anonymous, Mary S. Watts etc...
The basic core of their teachings is basically the same as Advaita and many on your site like Ramana Maharshi, Nisargatta Maharaj.
On these I have ordered some books from Amazon to learn more.
I have also found about Douglas Harding about two weeks ago, which lead me to the others named above (Ramana and Nisargatta).
As for your site, I found it in an MSN groups.
The ONLY thing that interest me is ENLIGHTEMENT. That's it! I'm 62 years old and searched all my life since I was around 10-12. A lot of frustration accumulated.
But in the last 4 years, I found all these authors and finaly feel I am at the core of Truth. "I AM" The only book I have presently is "The collected Works of Ramana Maharshi" by Arthur Osborne. Not always easy to read, adding that I'm a french Canadian doesn't help, although my English is pretty good...well I think it is!
In that book, a lot of emphasis is placed on Self-Enquiry. I've meditated for over 40 years, didn't get much out of it. So Self-Inquiry seems a pretty good way.
My logic is that...I AM ALREADY, IT'S HERE NOW. I only have to learn how to WAKE UP to what I AM. Why in the world should this darn thing be so difficult.
It resides in "dying daily," to the ego. It should be easy.
I wrote because of this quote below that I've just read on your site. Since I haven't read everything...this is probably one of those "stupid question" (LOL).
There must be a common thread with all these enlighted Ones. Something that is similar for all of them in reaching enlightement. Self-Enquiry seems just that, but this quote below doesn't encourage me.
QUOTE: ""My own personal view is that many times self inquiry in the form of asking, "Who am I," is not beneficial. Sometimes it is the wrong pactice at the wrong time."
Eager to read you on this.
G
-------------
G,
Please listen closely. This is very important.
You have practiced much meditation so your mind is strong. You should understand what I am about to tell you.
First, you are not your body. Understand that and believe that if you can.
The body, if you do my microanalysis meditation, is seen to be empty, having no existence except as an image of an integrated "thing." This is not a reality, but a concept and a mental image. There are sensations and perceptions if you imvestigate your own perception of "you," but nothing to hold it together except an image, an idea, a thought.
Nor are you consciousness, because conciousness as traditionally used, is consciousness of something, an object, whether of the body, thoughts or of the world.
You are the Awareness that is at the root of consciousness. You are formless, eternal without boundary. All the world is consciousness including all thoughts and even more, the sense of I and the thought I .Yet, these are gateways to realizing yourself.
What you are is deeper than that.
When you watch thoughts, you must know that the watcher is deeper than thought. The thought is an appearance in consciousness.
Now, how do you become aware of yourself as awareness?
It is not by practicing who am I so much as dwelling in the subjectivity--the source--in Absolute awareness. The Who Am I practice is done to ever more closely make yourself aware of the First Person, ultimate awareness without an object.
Which means to rest in the quietest part or your being. Turn your attention inward into your sense of self, of existence. Do not pay any attention to your body or thoughts. Don't watch them, don't think about what you are doing or speculate what absolute awareness is.
To make this more believeable, read The Path of Sri Ramana Maharshi by Sadhu Om. I am afraid what you find in most books about Ramana is not written by realized people and therefore, their translation is not correct. That is why I never changed even one word I thought Robert said from the tapes I had. His tapes were not always easy to understand because our recording equipment was very primitive before 1993.
Ramana himself wrote two books of the highest value: Who Am I? and Self-Inquiry. Theyt are very short.
I undeestand there is another highly recommended book called the Garland of Gurus Sayings by one of his greatest studens.
Of course, there is the book by Robert Adams, Silence of the Heart and the transcripts on this site.
Then too, read the Ashtavaka Gita. Read both over and over. Do not read anything else. You must choose just one way. As you know, following many practices and listening to too many teachers only creates confusion.
Abide in yourself as awareness, ever hour, everyday you can, and you will attain enlightenment. Many will say enlightenment cannot be attained because there is no I. True, but you must go deeper to understand this, and to understand thaT there is no consciousness either.Consciousness too is just an idea.
Good luck, stay in touch--write often as problems arise.
Ed
Hi Ed,
I've just found your site today and read some of the information there. I have read many authors of what is called "The Absolute". People like Walter Lanyon, Lillian De Waters, Joel Goldsmith, Anonymous, Mary S. Watts etc...
The basic core of their teachings is basically the same as Advaita and many on your site like Ramana Maharshi, Nisargatta Maharaj.
On these I have ordered some books from Amazon to learn more.
I have also found about Douglas Harding about two weeks ago, which lead me to the others named above (Ramana and Nisargatta).
As for your site, I found it in an MSN groups.
The ONLY thing that interest me is ENLIGHTEMENT. That's it! I'm 62 years old and searched all my life since I was around 10-12. A lot of frustration accumulated.
But in the last 4 years, I found all these authors and finaly feel I am at the core of Truth. "I AM" The only book I have presently is "The collected Works of Ramana Maharshi" by Arthur Osborne. Not always easy to read, adding that I'm a french Canadian doesn't help, although my English is pretty good...well I think it is!
In that book, a lot of emphasis is placed on Self-Enquiry. I've meditated for over 40 years, didn't get much out of it. So Self-Inquiry seems a pretty good way.
My logic is that...I AM ALREADY, IT'S HERE NOW. I only have to learn how to WAKE UP to what I AM. Why in the world should this darn thing be so difficult.
It resides in "dying daily," to the ego. It should be easy.
I wrote because of this quote below that I've just read on your site. Since I haven't read everything...this is probably one of those "stupid question" (LOL).
There must be a common thread with all these enlighted Ones. Something that is similar for all of them in reaching enlightement. Self-Enquiry seems just that, but this quote below doesn't encourage me.
QUOTE: ""My own personal view is that many times self inquiry in the form of asking, "Who am I," is not beneficial. Sometimes it is the wrong pactice at the wrong time."
Eager to read you on this.
G
-------------
G,
Please listen closely. This is very important.
You have practiced much meditation so your mind is strong. You should understand what I am about to tell you.
First, you are not your body. Understand that and believe that if you can.
The body, if you do my microanalysis meditation, is seen to be empty, having no existence except as an image of an integrated "thing." This is not a reality, but a concept and a mental image. There are sensations and perceptions if you imvestigate your own perception of "you," but nothing to hold it together except an image, an idea, a thought.
Nor are you consciousness, because conciousness as traditionally used, is consciousness of something, an object, whether of the body, thoughts or of the world.
You are the Awareness that is at the root of consciousness. You are formless, eternal without boundary. All the world is consciousness including all thoughts and even more, the sense of I and the thought I .Yet, these are gateways to realizing yourself.
What you are is deeper than that.
When you watch thoughts, you must know that the watcher is deeper than thought. The thought is an appearance in consciousness.
Now, how do you become aware of yourself as awareness?
It is not by practicing who am I so much as dwelling in the subjectivity--the source--in Absolute awareness. The Who Am I practice is done to ever more closely make yourself aware of the First Person, ultimate awareness without an object.
Which means to rest in the quietest part or your being. Turn your attention inward into your sense of self, of existence. Do not pay any attention to your body or thoughts. Don't watch them, don't think about what you are doing or speculate what absolute awareness is.
To make this more believeable, read The Path of Sri Ramana Maharshi by Sadhu Om. I am afraid what you find in most books about Ramana is not written by realized people and therefore, their translation is not correct. That is why I never changed even one word I thought Robert said from the tapes I had. His tapes were not always easy to understand because our recording equipment was very primitive before 1993.
Ramana himself wrote two books of the highest value: Who Am I? and Self-Inquiry. Theyt are very short.
I undeestand there is another highly recommended book called the Garland of Gurus Sayings by one of his greatest studens.
Of course, there is the book by Robert Adams, Silence of the Heart and the transcripts on this site.
Then too, read the Ashtavaka Gita. Read both over and over. Do not read anything else. You must choose just one way. As you know, following many practices and listening to too many teachers only creates confusion.
Abide in yourself as awareness, ever hour, everyday you can, and you will attain enlightenment. Many will say enlightenment cannot be attained because there is no I. True, but you must go deeper to understand this, and to understand thaT there is no consciousness either.Consciousness too is just an idea.
Good luck, stay in touch--write often as problems arise.
Ed
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