HELP STOP CAT KILLING!

A rogue county agency, LA County Vector Control, is rounding up and killing feral and stray cats as a defense against “terrorist threats” and wildly unproven theories of threats to humans health. Next they will move on to cities, as in the past with Santa Monica.

An email received by me: The L. A. County Public Health, spearheaded by Joe Ramirez, Environmental Health Specialist,  phone (626) 430-5468, has contracted the L. A. County Carson Animal Shelter to trap and euthanize all feral and stray cats within the park area and wherever there is ‘human interaction’.  I spoke with him on two occasions trying to negotiate allowing rescue groups to handle a relocation and adoption effort.  

But he is against relocation of any sort unless in a cat sanctuary or adoption.  He feels that feral/stray cats have become a National Security problem because of the ‘potential’ of spreading deadly diseases, plagues, and biohazards.  His mission is to go from park to park or wherever there are strays and ferals and euthanize them. He told me that Carson said they would euthanize the cats right away. It is a death sentence for all the feral and stray cats in L.A. County and then maybe elsewhere.

This is me, Ed Muzika: Joe Ramirez and his boss Gail Van Gordon are kill crazy and feel they are on a mission from God to cleanse the world or urban wildlife and feral cats when there is, in their minds, even the slightest potential for disease spread to humans. Ramirez bragged to me that the reason there has been no human plague in Los Angeles County is because they so thoroughly monitor and kill ground squirrels throughout the County. They don't even pretend to present reasonable arguments to support the medical/scientific necessity of their killing.

Ramirez told me in the past he wanted to kill feral cats because they can spread pneumonic vs. bubonic plague. Vector Control has been looking for an excuse to kill ferals for years, and now their excuse is terrorism! Over the year Ramirez has spoken to any number of groups about the need to trap and destroy cats. There most recent “reason” to trap is suspicion of Typhoid in the cats. Every month Ramirez has a different excuse or reason to trap and kill cats throughout the County.

Trapping has already begun at Del Aire Park and Imperial School in Hawthorne where a notice has been posted, that cats will be trapped and taken to the Carson shelter where they will be “adopted” out.  Next in line for trapping is PECK PARK and THE HARBOR UCLA MEDICAL CENTER.  That County will adopt them is a complete lie. Feral cats are not adoptable. The County kills them after a 3 day hold. In fact, LA County has a kill rate of almost 90% for all cats impounded, whether feral, tame or kittens.

Phone Numbers of People to Call:

MOST IMPORTANT: Jonathan Fielding: Head of County Health,

jfielding@ladhs.org, jfieldin@ucla.edu; Phone: County Health: Direct Line-(213) 240-8117; UCLA: (310) 206-1141

Joe Ramirez, (626) 430-5468—In Charge of Cat Killing

Ramirez’s Boss:  Gail Vangordon:  gvangordon@ladhs.org

            Phone (626) 430-5450. She considers scientific evidence from outsiders laughable.

MOST IMPORTANT: The Supervisors: These are the decision makers:

Gloria Molina: Phone (213) 974-4111

 

Zev Yaroslavsky: Phone (213) 974-3333 

Michael Antonovich: Phone: (213) 974-5555

Mark Ridley-Thomas: Phone (213) 974-2222

Don Knabe: Phone: 213-974-4444

Christian Fundamentalism is only technically part of a religious movement. Actually it is a deep pathology, and as such should be and is exposed. This is far from Robert and Advaita, but worth reading.

http://frank-schaeffer.blogspot.com/

http://www.frankschaeffer.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0qHnWsP5k

Questions from a reader:

1. Does the feeling that is called the feeling of I-am-ness always include a sense of separate selfhood? There seems to be an intimate sense or feeling of presence (or being) that does not however present itself in the shape of an I. I'm not talking about anything advanced-about transcending the "I" or reaching the ultimate subject or anything. I am talking about an immediate, pre-reflective feeling of being. When I reflect on this feeling I can note that it is graspable as mine but the lived experience is not one in which the being of which I am aware is grasped as mine. Now I think there is such a feeling. Does it count as an instance of the feeling of I-am-ness? One reason for thinking that it should count is that the beingness of which I am aware seems (on reflection) to be "mine" One reason for thinking it should not count is that the feeling does not include a pronounced consciousness of separateness. What do you think?


2. You say of Michael Langford's "awareness watching awareness" that it is shikantasa not vichara. Okay, I agree that what he is talking about is shikantasa. But If the self = awareness, why isn't awareness watching awareness a kind of self-awareness, and hence a form of self-inquiry? Perhaps your point is that bare awareness of awareness does not contain the thought "I". That would explain, why on your view, shikantasa's no good for "killing the self." Is this how you are conceiving of awareness watching awareness?

3. One might conclude from (2) that the I-am-feeling requires something like the word 'I'. But Nisargadatta makes a big deal of the wordless I am. His suggestion seems to be that this I am is somehow more "primordial" than the I am that takes the form of mentally voicing the words "I ... am." Is the wordless "I am" different from the wordless "presence" that is not yet the I-am I was talking about in (1)?

4. I take it that: the feeling I am ? the felt experience of the lived body. A potentially confusing thing here is that the felt experience of the body seems to be an experience of being and indeed to disclose my being (= my being as embodied). This might be a reason for describing the felt experience of the body as a form of I-am-ness. Perhaps the sense of my being as embodied is illusory (since the real I is not embodied), but the description seem phenomenologically accurate. There is a lived awareness of embodiment-a kind of bodily consciousness-is there not? Doesn't this consciousness come with a sense of "mineness"? You say: "[m]ost 'I am', subjective first person "feelings" will actually be associated with some form of body identification" - under the rubric of "false selves [that] will deceive all but most diligent." This suggests you think that there is a bodily I am that is distinct from the Advaita-preferred, distinct from the I-am-the-body-idea, I am. Is this your view?

Follow up thought: I had thought of mindfulness of the body (from Zen) as a "good" thing. I suppose that mindfulness of the body ? I-am-body-idea. You can be mindful of the body without identifying with it, can't you? Yet Nisargadatta advocates thinking constantly that I am not the body. This seems contrary to the spirit of cultivating mindfulness of embodiment. Does Advaita say that mindfulness of the body is incompatible with the desired I - consciousness?

5. I can become aware of that which asks Who am I? ("personal" report). Is this "awareness of the witness"? There are places where Nisargadatta associates awareness of the witness with I-am-ness. But this sense (of I-am-ness) seems to be very different from the sense of I-am-ness associated with wanting to be. It doesn't seem connected with a wish to continue existing. It doesn't seem to involve a sense of a separate identity. It may involve distinctness from what is witnessed, but there is no sense of difference from others. Other people don't seem to figure in this form of I-consciousness at all. Is there a witness I am that is different from a personal I am?

All this stuff is tremendously difficult to describe. So I'm not sure that I'm getting the phenomenology accurately. I may be making things more complicated than they need be (occupational hazard). But I've given it my best shot.

Thanks much.

---------------

My Reply:

The mind is quite self-disabling isn't it?

Most people avoid real self-inquiry by arguing about terms and
concepts used by one teacher versus another and get lost into trying to
discover how ultimately they agree, or that one guru was full of
crap while th other is the real thing.

Here you are using discrimination to effectively halt practice by
focusing on imaginary distinctions in experience.

It doesn't matter what Nisargadatta said or Ramana said about
practice. They really only, in the end, wanted an ending to concepts
by focusing on practice. But you focus on practice and find the conceptual
imaginary distinctions others find in the theories.

First principal:

All experiences are illusion including the sense of I, the word I, the
concept I, the sense of amness, and the waking and dreaming

experiences as a whole.

Self inquiry is not to find which aspect of the experience is real, or
belongs to Nisargadatta, but to see it is all unreal.

Just watch the I Am sense, sometimes associated with the body,
sometimes not. It changes with observation.

Just listen to Nisargadatta's pointers, but don't obsess over apparent
contradictions.

You want ultimately to submerge in consciousness only in order to find out
consciousness is as much illusion as concept.

Nisragdatta had his experiences which he formulated into an ideology,
which he then asks everyone to abandon. Ditto Ramana and Robert. A lot of what they say is just entertainment. The essence is practice.

Don't depend on them. You invesitigate yourself by inner observation
in the best way you know how to find your core.

Don't be distracted by techniques or experiences. They are for you to
borrow, improve upon or ignore.

Just grasp your sense of self however or whereever you find it and
hang on, or sit doing absolutely nothing, and various samadhi's will
come to you.

As Seung Sahn said over and over, you must become completely stupid.
Real hard advice for people used to using their minds. Robert spent 90% of

Satsang providing emotional entertainment, but always ended in talking about self-inquiry's visisitudes, and in the end, silence when all is empty.

You know emptiness from Zazen, but here there is the emptiness as the personal self is lost. That loss is different and more "personal" as you feel it to be YOUR emptiness rather than just a state of emptiness, as in Samadhi, that comes and goes.

As Robert said, "You become totally useless." That is why I like his "Good for Nothing Man" talk best.

It is somewhere on the itisnotreal website and ceratinly in his Collected Works.

My new kitten. She was rescued from a drainage ditch sceduled to be cemented over soon. Still trying to get her sister, a gorgeous Calico. She is six weeks 3 days old.

Slideshow below:

http://picasaweb.google.com/edwardmuzika/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=Gv1sRgCOyFyPXAkbjEyAE#slideshow/5379600491093539330

Letter:

Ed one more question. Who is it , first thing in the morning, that would try to catch the I as it rises from the self to the brain? What chases and what runs? There was one instance (or maybe 2), very clear, where I became conscious in this gap between sleep and waking up. I was aware of being, but I did not know who I was - just that I was. Also, I knew, without thinking, that I would know who I was when something reached my brain and activated the memories. Was this imagination? Is this trying to catch the I - just a way of saying - try to become conscious before you hit the brain, like I experienced? For there are not 2 I's One to run and One to chase. Terminalogy is such a trap to understanding.

My Response:

There is no I. Never was an I. I is a concept, a fiction. Same too with Self. These are just all words and concepts pointing to an imaginary existence. I appears to exist because you have the concept that there is an independent subject I associated with the word 'I'. When you see there is no objective you as a separate person that the word and concept I points too, then you see there is no objective external world either. All is you, the totality of consciousness. However, then you will begin to realize that consciousness is quite variable, yet you don't feel variable. You feel independent, free, the ultimate subject to whom waking, dream and sleep come as a show that is not you. You are the unmanifest subject, the noumena. Actually you are the world-show too, but it emmanates from your noumenal, absolute emptiness, and is variable while your true nature is not. So any questions about various I's searching for other I's and other imaginary splits are still the same--all this is just concept. You as an I do not exist. You as the totality that mistaken creates a multiplicity, fundamentally do not exist in existence, because you count existence as that which is perceived rather than that which perceives. It will become clear. Just keep going as you are. You are doing fine. Ed

My True Guru!

As Robert used to say over and over, "Everyone wants to get into the act!"

Letter:

"I haven't become aware of my "True Nature" (whatever that is) although I did have a strange experience once but since it involved a feeling of knowing and understanding all within the fake world I don't know what it was. Yet there is this innate sense that it is true that there is no me. I'm currently at the state where I just see my mind as a freaking nuisance and I feel like I don't know anything anymore.

"I can't even explain why it's so important to me- but I have to know because until then, nothing else matters. I've been dealing with this feeling that things weren't what they seemed and that I didn't belong for as long as I can remember."

"I don't know many authors or titles or the difference > between this school of thought or that one and frankly, I don't think > it matters within the context of trying to wake up."

Ed:

Actually, it matters most of all because it is all bullshit. The only
thing to pay attention to are instructions on how to practice
self-inquiry. That is the core of the two non-Robert texts I sent you:
practice and self-inquiry.

Here is the rub. Spiritual people are looking for something. They know
something is wrong with the world but they don't know what. They
search for something, but they don't know what. So they listen to all
the gurus with all the different philosophies and get totally lost.
The only way you don't get lost is exploring yourself. Hopefully you
get to the point where self-exploration is your own way rather than
trying to recreate the explorations Ramana or Nisargadatta did.

The last 2 chapters of the Path of Ramana Part I are two of the best
on self inquiry as is Pradeep.

Robert is stillness speaking to you through the modifications produced
by your mind and should be considered entertainment though you can
have wonderful temporary experiences as a result. "The Way" is marked by
these experiences. These are what keep people going. But, in the end,
the experiences are not important. The real work is being accomplished

through the silence accomplished through going within, and to an extent, Robert's words, or, as in my case, through listening to sacred music. Both instill stillness, silence.

Eventually you get to a place where you are yourself as You after all the spiritual reading and practices are done. By that time you are fully baked and utterly useless to anyone or anything
except your cats, whom you serve. But, you will be happy and complete.

A Letter: Nisargadatta was my main teaching 8 or 9 years ago and his books were my bibles. And so, I've been doing the I Am meditation since that time. I usually start in the head space on the in breath for "I". Then hold it there and on the out breath allow rest in the "Am"...I also just do shikantaza and focus more in the belly center. Towards the end of my meditations, I will place my hands on the heart and do the "I AM" there and pray for grace/surrender. I typically sit in the morning for 1/2 hour and then in the evening for another 1/2 hour. Sometimes, on my days off, i'll step it up and do a modified sesshin...and sit most of the day... 2-3 years ago, I felt i needed a teacher. Even though i could rest as non conceptual awareness, I was depressed and had a distaste for the world and no motivation to do anything...it became hard to be around family/friends because i felt so divorced from how they saw the world...so, i went to a zen monastery thinking someone would know how to live out this no-self state that i had become stuck in...it was there during a weeklong sesshin that i saw that everything i took myself to be was simply imagination...this quite simply, blew my mind and it came even harder to know how to be in the world after i left the monastery...i then started a contemplative bed and breakfast with my girlfriend focusing on yoga/meditation....this didn't bring in enough $$, so I ended up getting a job working with Alzheimer patients doing therapeutic recreation...this has been a god send and i can do the job with my big toe...but, when i'm not working, i usually just kind of lay around lately... still, i keep reading what other teachers have read or listen to youtube stuff...it's like, I don't know what else to do...i enjoy just listening to satsangs, but it seems like enough is enough and i feel like maybe i'm still depressed, as there's no motivation to do things...i can have thoughts of, for example, getting a master's degree in counseling, but then, it's like, why follow the imaginations of the mind anymore...i function in my job quite well and don't discuss my spiritual process with anyone there...i am now single and live quietly in a cabin in rural connecticut...i will go see family and friends in ohio, but i can only do quick visits for a day or two...after that, i need to be on my way...i still talk with my old girlfriend, who i could share this process with...i can't imagine being with someone who i couldn't discuss it with...or maybe it would be better....anyway, i'm living a hermit's life and to a degree it suits me, but as i said, things just feel incomplete... i know this is just my mind rambling, and these questions don't arise when i do the "I AM", but nonetheless, this is what is arising...hope this helps....thanks and take care....P

P, You are 99% done. You are doing fine. The sense of incompleteness itself is the last barrier. It is not you. It is not real. Just keep going. Love, Ed Imagine 99% cooked. That is VERY, VERY good.

Is there interest in starting a Satsang in the Los Angeles Area?

Robert never would have started a Satsang except that he couldn't work or drive anymore because of Parkinson's Disease. He jokingly referred to it as his job.

However, I miss Satsang, chanting and the association of people with like minds.

I live in the Valley, and Robert had Satsang all over LA. Satsang was always on Sunday afternoon at 1 pm and Thursday at 7:30. Thursdays were the "deeper" Satsangs, while Sunday were more general and more welcoming for newcomers.

I get emails once a month or so from people who want to know whether we hold Satsang. We don't. But if there were enough interest, it might happen.

If interested, email me at:

satsang.online@gmail.com

Dearest Ed,

A couple of weeks ago, you recommended I read and ponder Pradeep's 'Nisargadatta Gita' daily.

It was so profound - and obvious! - that it struck like a lightning bolt. My practice and conviction intensified. The 'light episodes' got more intense and it felt like I was being vacuumed clean from 'above' by a very powerful Dyson!

Initially, I felt elated. "At last ..." I thought, "... this would be the source of unalloyed happiness, joy, bliss!"

Well, that's what thought did!!! The original 'I Am' seemed to 'change' and become all fuzzy. It even split off into 'unreal?' bits??

During these 2 weeks, I appear to have been going through a whole range of 'weirdness.' I'm still 'passing out' every day for hours - and come back (it seems) on the realisation that I haven't been breathing. There's a bit of panic with this and my chest feels crushed empty. I've been boiling hot, freezing cold, my body hurts everywhere - it even feels like there's a wee alien taking footsteps under my skin - and nothing makes any sense anymore. I'm forgetful, confused, can't think straight. I can't talk to anyone either, like I've developed a fear of connecting with people.

It appears I'm literally going to go nuts and/or just burst right open at the seams with the seeming immensity of the 'problem' that I appear to have been 'stuck' on for the last few days (despite intense practice etc.)

There's this total and utter emptiness, desolation, despair, aloneness ... nothingness ... pointlessness. Disappointment. Anger that I've been 'lied' to ... cheated ... that all this time I've been looking to uncover the bliss of my True Nature ... the God within ... and there's absolutely nothing there.

I'm inquiring as to whom all this comes but just seem to be in the same space. Nowhere. No-one there.

It's like I've died to everything ... even to hope itself.

I would sooooo very much appreciate any direction you can offer Ed in what appears to be a very dark time.

I've been calling out to Robert for help and surrendering all this 'appearance' to him. All I'm aware of is "All is well and everything is unfolding exactly as it should." I'm hanging onto that!!

Love, G

Your true nature is neither emptiness or fullness. You are beyond both.

All these experiences you are having have nothing to do with you;

these are happenings in the consciousness you identified yourself

with. That emptiness nature is the nature of pure consciousness.

The not breathing means your entire being is relaxing and going beyond

body identification.

What is happening to you over days is what happened to me over a few hours.

There is absolutely nothing to fear, you are being liberated.

Ed

Thank you so much for your reassurance Ed.

Love G

Someone who never met Robert composed this fantastic love poem:

“God, God, God.”

Your violin arrived, Robert, but the answers to the equations weren’t

forthcoming. Instead … just a deafening symphony of silence. It put Brahms, Beethoven and Mendelssohn – even Narada Muni – to shame. There you were – lost in an imponderable composition that never was, but still went on forever. You saw the Limitless masquerade as the finite and dance in consummate stillness. That earned you an “F.” Well done. So … there’s no sky, and there’s no blue. It sounds like perfect kite weather, Robert. Let’s call in “gone for Now” And meet at Warner Park. Play musical chairs around a picnic table with benches? Only you could pull it off. You’re completely nuts, ya know – that’s what I love about you the most. When the harmonium stops playing, just save me a seat on your lap. Now it’s off to India, off to Hawaii, off to Oregon – And back to LA just in time for a cup of chai with Ed and Bodhi. Of course you never went anywhere – where could you possibly go? I miss you. Oh, how I miss you. I was never in your presence, But you were always by my side. Next time, if I don’t turn my head and face you, Just give me a little pinch to remind me that it’s all a dream. Now the peacock has been fed. Flowers lie on Lakshmi’s samadhi, And Dimitri has long since taken his final walk on the waning plane of storied yesterdays. I must have blinked and missed it all. Tell me one last time how everything came to pass, Robert – It’s not real, but it’s a beautiful, beautiful lie. You say took a lawyer to confession, did you? Too bad the confession of a jnani isn’t admissible in court. The magistrate just can’t find a box large enough to contain the Infinite. So I guess Reality will have to be our little secret. You’re such a mischief maker, Robert. You really had me going. For a while there, I almost listened your words – Instead of drinking all the love you offered in a single draught.

Hi Ed,

Listening to Robert is amazing.  I can't even believe the difference between reading and hearing him, beyond even what I imagined.  

What is so crystal clear about Robert than one can't pick up on as well through the writings, is his incredible compassion.  There is not an inkling of personal judgment in his responses to the questioners, a clear compassion. 

Like you said, the real test is in being a loving and compassionate person and the way he is can't be faked.  His compassion also comes out in his approach to suffering. While he says that everything is preordained, he acknowledges the need for doing what one needs to do; that is, he doesn't come from belief.     

S.

Hi Ed,

I have been seeking for over 30 years but the last 9 were more (or less) intensive.

Many teachers say Consciousness (turya, Brahman, I-Amness, etc,) is the final "goal". Some however say there is that which is beyond Consciousness which is the Absolute Reality. In fact Siddharameshwar calls Brahman the MahaMaya. It is the original illusion. The title of Jean Dunn's transcriptions, both titles approved by Nisargadatta: "Prior to Consciousness" and "Consciousness and the Absolute" speak to the point.

Consciousness may be a step towards realization of the Absolute, but as tourists say about the city of my birth, NYC., it's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

I now have copies in a binding of the talks by Robert Adams from your site. Will take it with me on my upcoming trip. Have already read the 1st two. Also the recording of him "Awareness of Consciousness", I have listened to it several times. Funny though, this morning was the first time all of it got through. Thank you for making these available.


Best wishes, R.

To R:

Re Maha Maha.

Most of the famous gurus have metaphysics associated with their
"school." Ramana has Turiya and Turiyatta as does Nisargadatta. Lots of Buddhist schools have their own ontology and epistemology, while Zen more or less has none.

Both Krishnamurtis talk of unity consciousness and accept consciousness as a brain phenomena, while the I and you disappear in unity consciousness. They don’t go far from that.

Robert didn't really have any ontolohy. He'd mention them to entertain people--like me, and then at the end of the talk admit he was pulling their leg.

You have to take all if this with a grain of salt. Lot's of people
describe almost exactly the same experience in very different ways, and probably more often, very different experiences in similar ways.

As long as words are used to communicate, we never know what another experiences. Music, I think, better conveys the experience of another without too much distortion, but sucks at conveying ontology.

Therefore, how can you trust what anyone says that their experience means?

That is why I just advise people to practice self-inquiry and find their own experience and truth which they can then express as their message.

Therefore too, I recommend listening to sacred music. I think those who get it, all get more or less the same experience.

Ed

A Reader Questions:

Dear Ed, it was recommended to me by a friend that I contact you with a few questions that I have. I am a 21 year old University of  XXXX student majoring in Classics. I am having difficulty understanding the definition of existence in Mind 4 of the Blue website. I understand that since the world is defined by the mind's perception that it has no foundation in reality because thoughts are not real and do not exist. According to the definition of existence provided on the blue website there is nothing that exists because there is nothing that is tangible, and there is nothing that is tangible because perception defines tangibility, and perception is simply a thought, and thoughts are not tangible so they do not exist. This is where I stumble. The suggestion made by this definition that thought and perception are one in the same is true on a biological level. Chemical and electrical signals in the brain and body work to affect thought and perception in a similar manner, but I wonder if it might be incorrect to suggest that sensory perception and thought are no different. In addition it seems to me that the given definition of existence is too narrow. When I hear the word exist I assume it is referring to something that "is," or rather something that "is not a lack of something," although making nothing the subject of a sentence, and making nothing into something that I can refer to seems paradoxical. I understand that what is and what is not depends solely on my perception of it and in that way there is nothing without the mind's perception. Is it possible that the only way to understand non-existence is that non-existence is that which the mind cannot fathom or perceive, and by that definition it is impossible to ever reach a higher state of awareness? And if that were true might it also be true that enlightenment is just another mind state.

p.s. I am aware that I use the word "I" a lot, and I realize the implications of this. But I am not sure how to convey through speech what "I" am thinking.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my ramblings. 

Dear YYYYYYYY

For future correspondence can you use a larger type, such as 12-14 pts and break up your questions into separate paragraphs to make it easier for this old mind to follow?

I am not defining thought or the world there. I am pointing out my understanding.

To use an analogy, thought is like a mass that distorts awareness, grabs hold of it, and creates a condition, such as an apparent object. Without the thought to give the formless awareness form, there would no form, no objects, no external world.

When the thoughts are no longer identified with through practice, they lose the ability to create forms including objects. Then they are seen to be unreal compared to the “seer” who is You.

You have the primary existence, all else is secondary to you, impermanent, having no substance. It is a passing imaginal form. You, as a person are as nothing in this scheme, just a passing form.

In any event, this is not a definition. Definitions are between words and concepts. It is more like a description which binds the world to concepts.

Ultimately awareness, the real, whatever you call it, cannot be described or defined. You need to get beyond this bottleneck of trying to understand with words, anything. The mind will never give you freedom. To go free you need to lose your mind.

Communicating with a Teacher

I get several emails everyday form people asking directions about their practice and often with practices far from what I have recommended or practiced myself. These questions are very difficult to answer because I am not in their skin nor vice versa. We communicate through concepts, words and images, yet there is no common point "Rosetta Stone" whereby I can know that what you mean by "red" is the same as what I mean, or that your experience of "emptiness" or "I Am" is the same as mine was. We just all assume there is some correspondence, and in most instances things seem to work out as if there had been communication.

Therefore when you send a description, unless it is very detailed and dovetails into my own experiential progression on the path, I really can't tell where you are because you are still lost in what I call "Imaginal Space," the inner conceptualizing and imaging processes that fill our inner and outer sense of emptiness with a non-existent world of name, substance and form. That emptiness becomes polluted by the constant mentation/imaging processes.

The trick is to end imaginal space and its contents altogether. The I Am is the core component that arranges and orders that imaginal space giving the world its form and you your apparent body/mind.

But many of the questions I get are on how to proceed to enlightenment from some point inside of the questioner's imaginal space meditation experiences, which are all illusory. It is almost like asking, "In which direction do I need to walk in order to get into the Fifth Dimension?" Well, there is no Fifth Dimension from where you are, there will only be continuity of the illusion unless you want to wake up.

Meditation can only get you to an experience of a very refined emptiness such as the Clear Light Void I have talked about. The I Am feeling, imagining and thinking are in abeyance, and a feeling of the empty and void nature of things is strong.

This is very subtle and peaceful, but is not enlightenment which is a total blowing out of the imaginal space and its contents.

Nothing can show you the way to this true void, true emptiness; it has to happen to you. The best you can do is to prepare the way, that is, practice. Awakening becomes the focus of your attention.

Right now for the sake of communication, using a specific variety of Self-Inquiry which I feel is both rapid and least likely to cause you to go astray, I ask you to download Pradeep's "Nisragdatta Gita" from the Resource page. Print it out and put it in a 3 ring binder. Read 4-5 paragraphs every morning and "ponder" the meaning. Correct meditation then can be almost automatic.

I like his form because there is less likelyhood of getting lost compared practicing awareness watching awareness, or trying to follow the I-thought to its source.

As long as you can feel your sense of existence, you will have a guide. But asking yourself, "Who am I?, and waiting, or sitting trying to be aware of awareness, can lead to losing interest, getting lost, and puts an unnecessary emphasis on void-like or emptiness meditations. I know, because I did this meditation for many years.

After you do this a few weeks, then send questions and we will be a little bit "closer" to being on the same page.

The Reader Loses It Then Gets It Back Again


READER:

Hi again Ed, I know that you want me to dwell in emptiness, in true existence as much as possible. But last night, I was reading Robert's Collected Works and would appreciate your clarification if it's alright. If I shouldn't even be asking this, I understand. It relates to, but is also different from the original question I asked you about deep sleep.

Robert states: "Once you go to sleep, the world no longer exists for you and you are is a state of dreamless sleep. The state of dreamless sleep is like jnana, self-realization, except you have consciousness. But there is no denying that you exist, for when you wake up you say, "I slept well." The state of dreamless sleep is like a person who died. It gives you an idea of what happens to you when you die, so to speak....So the first state of consciousness is dreamless sleep, and you exist in dreamless sleep."

This does not feel true for me as there are often times in which I am not aware that I had been sleeping (only the clock tells me) and so Robert's statement does not for me, "confirm" my existence, my undying consciousness. In fact, deep sleep seems to be the exception to the recognition that I exist. I do realize that my question is also rooted in an egoic fear, in old family history, but it snags me.

In your own writings you say: "Even the deep sleep state is a state of consciousness. The brain, mind and body are shut down during that ‘time’. All is forgotten because remembering requires mind. Mind is shut down during deep sleep as is the brain. Both are forgotten. But an underlying tone of awareness continues. Many people after some practice "feel" the presence of the sleep state even when awake. YOU are that which can simultaneously be aware of both waking and sleeping, even though you are primarily the waking state at the time.....There is no argument that can prove there is an observing consciousness or existence in sleep. All arguments that there is consciousness in sleep depend on argumentation and inference. They try to convince the reader that this is their direct experience by inference. This is a weakness of all Jnani-style expositions: he mystery of the deep sleep state..."

What you write is true, isn't it? Unborn existence or awareness cannot be confirmed in deep sleep, the one state free of mind. Awareness in deep sleep appears to have been unquestionably true for Robert as an exception. Still any clarification would again be helpful.

ANSWER:

Ahh, you lost it. That is to be expected.

Robert was repeating the standard Jnana-Advaita argument that just does not wash. It is a ridiculous argument.

BUT, you are still looking for a waking-type of awareness in deep sleep. It won't happen. Ever.

The question again comes from a place of identification with waking consciousness as the only "real" consciousness.

However, the waking consciousness is an artifact of having a body and depends on the state of the body. It is weak, feeble and temporary. Ditto dream sleep.

Dream sleep is the imaginal world weakly illuminated by waking consciousness.

The real argument is that you are That which is aware of the coming and going of waking consciousness.

The analogy I used was a candle flame. The flame itself, if conscious, would not be aware of its non-existence. Only the wick and the observer would be aware of the coming and going of the flame.

So too with you. You are aware you are aware now, and you are also aware you will not be aware 12 hours from now.

That you is like the wick or the observer.

You can argue that it is only the conscious mind that knows it will not be a few hours hence and not something beyond, yet, when you wake up and when you go to sleep you do watch the coming and going of sleep. It is not the waking mind that observes that, it is the underlying consciousness associated with having an alive body, Turiya.

It is this recognition that you see the coming and going that creates the knowledge you are beyond all this. You can never see That which is beyond it, but you become rooted in it with that knowledge.

I go one step further than most Advaita. Most take that emptiness and Void they perceive to be that out of which the world and body arise, but the Void is merely another percept. You perceive it. You are beyond by having no property at all, not even void or space, just as when you sleep.

That is, without a body you are nothing at all, not even sentient. You are the witness of all sentience including waking consciousness.

I never asked Robert if he had a waking consciousness with memory at night. I think if I were to ask him, he would say he did not.

You have to lose hold of waking consciousness as being the measure of all existence. It is not.

READER:

Wow Ed, Thank you for your response. Everything you say is extremely clear. Formless, aware presence "returned". No qualities or properties here, not a mark. This reality is so real, yet of nothing. Also today, I directly saw the made-up quality of my fear. So made up! I heard that people laugh when seeing this, but I never did. Today though, the seriousness with which I had taken this storybook sense of reality made me laugh. I also see that I have always known this true reality.

I do have another question that rises from this awareness.

Last week I wrote this down: There is no separation between mind and no mind, even though mind is a conceptual overlay. Paradox vanishes. Even untruth is of the One and yet not, infused, supported by an emptiness that cannot be described. Thought does not bother me. I engage in the world as a play and though unreal, is loved as the All.

Sometimes however and today, this is noticed: True reality is not aware of anything, not even of dream states. Only the pure, unmarked, absolute reality exists, so there is nothing else to be aware of.

When you have time, can you let me in on any sense of what is going on here? The awareness is different.

Thank you for being there.

ANSWER:

Part of the old you is struggle desperately to stay alive--or this is how it appears.

Actually, there is a loose wheel portion of your mind that keeps spinning out of habit, generating questions and perplexities.

Sort of like having a sore tooth, but after the root canal, something seems wrong without it.

At times you let this process take over and out spins questions and perplexities.

The only light to shed is that this is a pathological part of yourself that needs passive observation and separation from.

It is almost like you just received $20,000,000 and then start asking questions about how two bills seem to have been printed at different mints, have different signatures on them, and different colors, thinking there might be some deep meaning.

You have been searching a long time and part of you would feel lost if there were nothing more to do except sit still.

READER:

Thank you Ed. Your description is so brilliantly clear that I have to laugh. I see the residual habit. I see my endearing toothache. I will sit still, passively observing. I don't mind. The old is not my only choice anymore. Thank you again for your keen guidance. I don't believe you fully know how much you help me.

A Reader Awakens
...

The last post was a question from a reader and my responses. The topic was sleep. The exchange is listed in the previous post.

Since then, there were additional exchanges recorded immediately below.

She has awakened. Her experience is real. It is obvious by her comments and questions that she has been wandering in the foothills of enlightenment for some time. This will not be her last Satori.

Now that she has seen clearly who she is, she will need to hold onto it and deepen both her experience and understanding. Remember, Robert spent 17 years wandering around India making sure, as he put it, that “I didn’t miss anything.” Ramana spent years living in the basement of temples or caves speaking to no one. This is the real beginning of practice.

As Philip Kapleau told me, the initial seeing is like finding the light switch in a dark room. When the light goes on so to speak, you begin to see the wonders of consciousness and beyond.

READER:

Hi Ed,

Yesterday, I witnessed the coming and going of appearances for about ten hours. I saw that all objects are empty of inherent Being, are a reflection of mind and yet in a way, are themselves of Being, of Consciousness, because they are objects or reflections of Consciousness. I can generally embrace this, even though at times I can get a kind of ego rebellion and feel unpleasantly dead. I realize that this feeling is just another thought, an identification with mind and body, and will need to witness this too.

Anyway, here is my question. Although it is clear to me that the object world is a reflection of mind-body thoughts and perceptions, are there not objects or a world outside of the human mind-body that are also reflections of the one ultimate conscious reality? If I see a tree for instance, I can "see" that this appearance includes a product of thought and perception. However, if I tell another "person" about the tree, its appearance and location, it will be recognized by the other as the same tree.

So is there not an illusory reflection of Reality or Supreme Consciousness going on that is not an exclusive reflection of the human perceptual, thinking mind alone and that creates the appearance of a world? That is, is ultimate reality reflecting an illusory world as well as and including an illusory human thinking mind that also creates an image of a world, or is there only the human mind creating the dream of world?

If it's the later, I don't understand it, cannot reconcile the contradiction of the apparent consistency of the world even in light of the mere inferences of sensory perception. For me this makes it difficult to know how to address and live in this world even as a dream.

Thanks so much for being there. Being able to write to you is so helpful.

RESPONSE:

Why are you doing this?

The question is only philosophy, asking epistemological and ontological opinions. This is only thinking. The question is bullcrappy. It is of no more value than asking whether the numbers 2 and 5 have some actual physical existence as a logical set somewhere in space-time.

All elements of consciousness are illusion, including your question. There is no human. There is no human mind. There is no Cosmic mind or Absolute. These are just words. There is nothing behind them.

You are getting close, don't screw around "reconciling." What is there to reconcile in order to drink coffee at Starbucks?

What you are to do is investigate your experience, isolate unadulterated consciousness and dwell there.

In any event, you can answer the question yourself and see what it does for you. Ask the question and then say, "Yes there is." Then ask and say, "No, there isn't." See whether either answer helps you in any way. Perhaps you just enjoy feeling perplexed.

Have you discovered what the dark denseness experience is yet?

READER:

Hi Ed, I understand and see that what you said is so. I'll drop all this and go back to dwelling in reality, in true conscious awareness. I started already. I watched the dark emptiness for two hours when I woke up, but it remained dense. When I look at it right now, I sense it as an illusory thought form, but in this next moment, it is lighter and not truly dead. I still don't know. I will look at it through the evening and then again in the morning when the experience of the dense darkness is very strong.

Thank you for the wake up call. I am very grateful.

RESPONSE:

The darkness is only sleep.

You are always aware of all three states, deep sleep, waking and dream. Everyone is always aware of the dream state always without knowing it. It is the constant movement of thought forms and images I call imaginal space.

You are aware of all three states at once. That You is beyond them and has no characteristic they have such as waking consciousness, time, space, objects, etc.

Please read the new site very carefully. Most of your questions will be answered there. It is the blue site within the yellow/orange site.

READER:

Ed, I gasped when I read your response. After looking at the dense darkness for over an hour, I saw that it was of the mind, but did not grasp its nature. When you just said, "The darkness is only sleep", there was complete clarity. That's what I was seeing, a mind-based sleep state!! This clarity is liberating. Yet, I am also aware that I am beyond "this clarity". I am beyond this knowing, yet not separate from it. I am beyond being and not-being, beyond all concepts. I read the new site twice and will continue to read it carefully. I am so very grateful for your guidance.

RESPONSE:

Congratulations!

Don’t lose it.

Practice.

READER:

Thanks Ed. New morning. The mind "does not work" in the deep sleep state, so there is the appearance of dense darkness. I am now aware of this as an appearance, aware that this is a mind state that comes and goes and that I am not it. I am beyond all arisings in the imaginal mind. I am aware of this state, yet "have no characteristic of it". In under one week, you saved me an additional ten years of searching, or maybe a lifetime. Thank you, thank you!

Sleeping mind, waking mind, enlightenment.

Hi Ed, You said that you allow for crazy questions. Here's one that has been plaguing me for a over a decade. It would be nice to be rid of it. Here it is. While literally awake, Consciousness, Bliss, etc. are accessible. All of this however, seems to totally disappear when I am in a deep, dreamless sleep. Let me qualify.

When I am waking up from this dreamless sleep, I look at what I am rising from, still half in the sleep, and it seems that there is nothing there, the absence of even a flickering light of Awareness. Instead, there seems to be only a kind of dark blankness and I become afraid that this is what death truly is. Years ago when I was under anesthesia, I woke with the profound sense that what I was rising from is what death really is, a literal and absolute dead blankness.

If Awareness is always here and truly eternal, why would there not be some taste of Consciousness when I look at the deep sleep "state" while still half in it? Now I realize that Consciousness is not a "thing" to be remembered. That is why I emphasize being between the waking and sleep states when considering this issue. The egoic self feels afraid that formless awareness may after all, just be a product of the waking brain, of the unconscious mind and this perpetuates a fear of death that I would like to be free of.

Advaita writings talk all of the time about deep dreamless sleep as that of pure Consciousness. How do they know? If this nagging concern were to abate, I would have a quieter mind. No one I have ever talked to has been able to address this question. Is this going to be one of those unanswerable questions that are free?

Answer:

THIS IS THE CENTRAL QUESTION AND DILEMMA OF ALL JNANA TEACHINGS, ZEN, ADVAITA, ETC.

Not one in 10,000 get this as the central problem, know, illusion.

Listen carefully.

This is what I first wrote when I lost identification with the body and I saw waking consciousness--I Am--come and go:

I am That who is aware of the coming and going of I Am, of consciousness.

I am even before this knowledge.

I have no attibutes, I am before and beyond all attributes, knowing and not knowing.

I am and the world are little things compared to me.

Your problem is you still identify with waking consciousness and the body. Waking consciousness is trivial.

You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.

You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.

You are That who is aware of being, and then of not-being.

Being and Not Being arise in you. You are That who is aware of their coming and going.

As such, you are That who is beyond both.

This is the liberation.

At this point, just feel the dark emptiness and see what happens. It is only the sleep state in the background. It comes and goes. You are the witness of it coming and going. It is not you; it is a percept. But, when you know it, it has a welcoming nature.

The knowledge that you are not that which comes and goes is the first liberation. What you are is unknowable as an object. You are it, the witness of all. This is the beginning of your real practice after the disidentification with the body.

Next is to tease out all the extraneous added on stuff and find the Fundamental without adulteration. As of now, just take the position of the witness of the coming and going and recognize you are even beyond the knowledge that you are beyond consciousness.

Also, read closely what “Advaita writers” are actually saying. Conscious sleep means only that the thinking mind is not working. Nothing more. The mind does not work in deep sleep. So, what they mean is having no mental workings while awake. This is what they mean by waking sleep.

You have projected a meaning into what they say that they did not mean. But it is their screw up because they are not clear.

A reader writes:

Dear Ed,

I wanted to add to my question I sent...and not sure this needs to be added to the online site...up to you...

The Work question... "Is it true?" also stops the mind, like "Who am I?" or "What am I?"

I find for myself that I no longer need to write thoughts. That last night when I thought "I am crazy" I then asked myself "what is crazy?" and found myself laughing. I practice direct asking "what am I? or "what is upset?"..."what is going through this?" or "what is having a stomach ache?" I continually find the answer as no one, nothing, no "I"... peaceful, still, empty, no- thing SELF, always there. I find nothing is ever happening, that all arises and falls away in this SELF that is present, happy, still, silent, like a watcher, observing all phenomena, itself empty but alive, love, benevolent SELF, holding all without preference, hereness, amness, beingness.

Although I do not stay here but return to mind world, I believe I return because of familiarity of old conditioned self.

Anyway, wanted to add this because I wonder if The Work can also bring folks here, although maybe not this self, or perhaps I am cheating myself by not writing it all down and being lazy?

Thanks for the help on all this...feels good to get this all out.


Response:

Any strong question stops the mind, but only "Who am I?" or similar help you locate the thread of consciousness that leads back to the source.

Is it true only stops the mind and thinking, but does not provide the thread.

Many States; the "True" state.

A reader asks:

I have been trying to meditate on the "I am" but I am never really sure if this "I am" or my "meditation on consciousness" is not just another illusion. I don't really want to be running in circles forever, so I thought I'd email you about my current states/meditations and see which if any you consider to be the right approach. I am usually watching my mind throughout the day, and have formal sit down meditation, and music meditation at least 3-5 hours a day.

These writings on my states are copied from a diary entry I did earlier today.

CURRENT STATES:

1. Unconscious robot state. This state is kind of relaxing as it is mentally taxing to keep awareness at all times. Anyways in this state I usually just go into robotic critter mode, without any consciousness of speech and actions, self, etc. Is this the state I was always in before my turiya experience which briefly awoken my heart? In this state I almost always catch myself acting as a robot, and will sometimes (when exhausted from meditation, etc) just release and allow myself to become a robot again. It seems like after an intense meditation it's a good thing (or just easy) to just become a robot again, puts the mind at ease.

2. Forced concentration silent state. This is possibly what is called Laya, I am unsure. In this state I sometimes have such intense concentration it is overwhelming. Brain is mostly silent in this state, and thoughts have hardly any hold over me, they seem like futile attempts of mind. Concentration seems most intense while high on marijuana. The intense concentration feeling almost immediantly vanishes when I let the mind take over again.

3. Nice feeling meditation. In this state I concentrate on the impersonal nice feeling in the solar plexus that breathe seems to bring about (increased oxygen?). This state feels pleasant and when I focus I can continue this meditation without interruption from mind. However when the focus is lost, mind creeps back in until I realize that I fell back into robot mode. I have not attempted this meditation for long periods, or practiced it very long. I hear that if you focus on the heart and its feeling "I am" ? there is a chance it will swallow you up. Is this the right meditation for the swallowing to occur, the nice feeling doesn't really feel like its mine, it just feels like its there?

4. Everyday base awareness. I think I am in this state throughout most the day, just watching what is going on from an objective perspective, especially focused on watching my mind. I almost always catch myself slipping into robot mode and will bring myself back to this base awareness. This state is not extremely pleasant or anything, but it does root you into more of a reality into what is actually going on, rather than constantly day dreaming. Sometimes I feel good in this state, and sometimes I am without feelings until a stimuli (usually a person or animal) produces a feeling in me.

5. Meditating on consciousness? I am not sure if I have the right meditation here, but it seems to me like I am meditating on the mind/awareness itself. Mind is silent and thoughts rarely penetrate my focus. This is hard to explain as I am not really sure what is happening here. Am I tracing consciousness to its source, it sometimes feels this way? Would this type of meditation be right, or is it just another futile effort?

6. Spontaneous attempt of the hearts. This to me is the most genuine state or experience that I have throughout life. It feels as though the heart tries to break loose. Such pure love seems to randomly appear, albeit very briefly. Tears often ensue and thinking of Ramana makes me feel extremely comforted and loved. I would like to think this is turiya trying to break out, but I don't know. Sometimes brain will be like," Yes turiya come please come!" other times it will be fearful of its demise and want to go into robot mode. These experiences of intense bliss cannot be forced. Sometimes I will purposefully think of Ramana, and him saying "everything is fine" but I will have no response (besides an objective part of my personality which says, "you're pathetic, you can't force yourself to care!" It seems like these attempts of the heart breaking out occur most during listening of music, random points in meditation and random points throughout the day. These spontaneous attempts of the heart are probably the only real way to realize the self, but I want to ensure I am doing the right things to increase the chances of these attempts occurring.

7. Sleep meditation mixed with laziness ? I absolutely love sleeping, oh my; it's probably one of my most enjoyable things. I guess not existing is just that much fun! I think I almost always go into deep sleeps, since I hardly ever remember dreams (maybe one every four months). I read in the Nisargadatta Gita that the moment before fully waking up is a good place to catch turiya, and this makes a tremendous amount of sense. Almost every morning I become a little conscious before my mind fully wakes up, I have not caught turiya, but it is a wonderful state where I hardly know anything, I can see it being useful. Often times though enough of my mind appears which knows "this is a good place for turiya, where are you turiya!?"

While I know these random thoughts just appear from nowhere and they dont feel like they belong to me, it's hard for them to go away! I often try and meditate in this state and watch myself go back to sleep. I will wake up, watch, and go back to sleep and then repeat the process maybe two or three more times (very lazy, I've been working a lot lately).

In my meditations I often will ask myself "who am I", "who is experiencing this", "where does this come from", etc. Sometimes there is a genuine curiosity for the answers, othertimes I just don't care.

Basically I do enjoy life, I do not ever really think about my personality and I have seen myself become more child like, and a loss of judgments. Also I have seen myself become much more forgetful and newbish (I guess this is from thinking less, or focusing on the external world less?). Things do seem fresher, and I do seem "more aware." But also things aren't so great. I clearly see that my mind is not really mine, we are not in control of it, is the best we can do just watch our robot selves?

There is hardly anything that really feels like mine, not the nice solar plexus feeling, not the conscious meditating on itself state, and this doesn't bother me, but for the fact that don't you have to hold onto an "I am" to bring about the right conditions? So even though life seems stress free and is for the most part without worries I still know that my true essence is turiya, so I can't help but want to be completely free from this robotic life. I am not sure if I am close, I would like to think so though.

My mind seems often scared of its demise, because it remembers dying once. I often find my mind making up bullshit excuses during meditation, to avoid a breakthrough of the heart, the mind is afraid. As mind does become kinda scared at times, as it recognizes the severity of its "dying", I think a loving teacher would really help me break out, to show me fully that everything is just fine, but I know that this is already within me, so a physical teacher is not technically required....Even though the turiya experience directly showed me that everything is perfect, everyone is already enlightened I still think it's terribly sad that people are unconscious of it and we are really fucking up this world/ourselves.

A part of me wants to become free and wake up as soon as possible, not only because I am tired of this robot self, but because I really want to help wake up others....

thanks for reading, anything would be appreciated!

Reply:

It is important to not be fascinated by the passing phenomena, but find the source. There is the underlying identity to whom all this is happening.

Be aware that you are separate from and witnessing all this.

Then fall backward into the identity that is aware you are not the states you observe.\

Then recognize you are even before the recognition that those states are not you.

The way you are going is exceedingly complex because you are chasing leaves, not retracing the root.

The saving grace is you are looking in the right direction with energy and intelligence. That energy and persistence are 99% of the equation. Keep it up!

But deep inside you must recognize the seeker in you is That to whom all this is occurring, and therefore, much, much bigger than even Turiya. This is a big show, who is watching it? On the other hand, That is not a thing, nor even a state. It is beyond the world. Beyong waking and sleep and even beyond Turiya.

Ed

MORE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

Below. I get emails from many seekers with different email addresses but with the same surname. I get confused as to who is who because I find multiple threads of email exchanges from different addresses with SOMETIMES similar content. The below conversations are from AL and J, who share the same name. They may well be two, but I answer them as one.


Conversation #1 From J:

As per your instruction, I have been starting my day with the Nisargadatta Gita. Wonderful text. I can say it is helping without a doubt. To what degree, I'm not sure. I'm not sure if degree matters. It has helped me see how far reaching and simultaneously subtle the workings of the mind are. On a few occasions, it felt as if my thoughts, and the energy that goes along with them, melted away, and aside from my eyes, there was very little sensation in the head. In fact it seemed as if my thoughts moved downward internally. And on one occasion I thought I caught a thought springing up from below. I don't put much value in sensation. Should I?

I have begun to grasp the fact that the "I am" is present at all times and it is getting easier to fall back to it at all times of the day. I find myself becoming suddenly less partial in arguments. In fact I seem to have lost the desire to argue at all. This can't be understated. I've always reveled in arguing because I'm quite good at it. But in the limited amount of conversation I've had about "I am" with some close friends, I have observed in them the mind's ability to argue any phrase of words, no matter how true. I've seen this in myself as well.

I feel I've made great progress, yet I feel I don't really have any idea what I'm doing. I'm tired of trying to figure things out, yet I desire nothing else. One thing I can not do is use my memory to go back to the early childhood "I am". Although I don't expect I should be able to do this so easily.

I am learning the value of reading slowly (I've always been a relatively slow reader, last one done in class). It helps to create gaps that make it difficult for the mind to bridge. The mind seems to cycle the last thought until the next one is ready. I am learning to let the last thought drop before moving on to a new idea. My mind does not like this. It makes me want to sleep. In fact this newfound daytime sleepiness is my biggest obstacle right now. I hope this is some period of adjustment or some form of protest by my mind. I don't want to turn into Winnie the Pooh. I do like to get things done.

I thank you very much for your feedback. I know no one nor can I seem to find anyone in Appalachian Ohio that has had even the tiny glimpse I have had to discuss these things with. Is that a plus or minus? Is it good to seek out others in this? Or is it better to stay put and stay quiet?

Answer #1:

Jeremy, you are doing very well. Keep going as you are.

Seek others out as it is a boon to find them, but do not seek too high and far. They will be close, so don't make a career out of it.

You will feel your own correct place and time.

Conversation # 2, J:


I was reading some of your blog posts, and there seems to be a theme in spiritual matters which I just can't relate to. I almost never remember any dreams. As a child I would remember nightmares, which were common, and there were dreams about girls as a teen, but in my adult life, the amount of times I have awoke with any sense, let alone vivid memory, of what transpired in my dreams I could probably count on my fingers. And all but 2 or 3 of those have been very simple little dreams where I finish a conversation that never got finished in the waking state.

My question is, should I spend any time investigating this, or is this something that abiding in the I am will lead me to in due course?


Answer #2

There is nothing to be gained by pursuing the subject.

Your mind tries to distract you saying "I am bored with self-inquiry."

So to speak, your unreal ego is getting frigtened--at least that is the standard explanation. In fact, it is all bullshit. Just don't go down that path, it is a time-waster.

Conversation #3, J:

Your directness is appreciated. That day I woke up with a remarkable freshness, tried to "hold on" to it, but the mind fought back especially hard, it seemed. I had lots of "ideas" that day.

Would I be right in assuming that any "ideas" I might think I have are just that? What I mean is any idea is a collection of words and therefore of the mind, and therefore at best symbolic of what I'm after? I think I answered my own question.

Conversation # 4, AL (AKA J???)

Ed, my teacher, friend, cyber guru, very own self, dreamed up charachter. It is so strange that after realizing the whole ball of wax emanates from me including the idea of an Ed, a Ramana, and a J., life has collapsed into a very normal humanly existence except one thing, I know its ALL me, whatever I am, each moment just a passing show, day dreams and night dream are the same.

It is funny how every night new charachters from my entire dream existence of 41 years all of the old even childhood friends have been there, almost to remind me of my dreaming capabilities in both states, I cant tell if the fourth state has spread to sleep but it seems with no mind it would not be evident upon so called waking. Things still happen plenty, J. still practices the musical arts, reads bible to our kids, walks dog, grows his own sprouts and goes through nutritional routines, wants to be healthy. It is just recognized as fake and really doesnt matter. When in action (such as at work).. things flow out of J. at breakneck speed with no thought involved, when still... peace and joy prevail.

My question is, should practice of any sort still be pursued, and who the hell would do it? The awareness watching awareness guy recommends practicing until bodily death to prevent the ego from coming back, but really there never was an ego is what is seen here. Also it is clear that my entire life has been nothing but thoughts manifesting as apparent reality, Robert says stay with silent mind and transcend the whole ball of wax, any pointers?

Answer # 3

You are also AB, no? many times seekers send in questions that have 2-3 email addresses, but sign the email with the same personal name. Assuming J and AB are the same, I am answering both conversations above.

I understand where you are. There is no sense of self as an operating entity so you ask who can direct the practice. Apprehending where you are feels wonderful and you feel you cannot lose it. But, you can and will until you become absolutely fixed in it.

The fact you ask questions and your mind is filled with thinking means that you are not stable enough.

Set aside some time each day, maybe three times a day where you do nothing except be.

Go until all thoughts about what i going on die, and you are absolutely fixed.

Then, assurance MAY come when you feel yourself die as an entity. Then, some time after that happens, you MAY be finished with practice.

When you rest too easy, too soon, you will eventually lose it. You may lose it no matter what "you" do, but then you start again knowing where you have to go.

Regarding dreams. It seems your mind does not produce visual images well. That is fantastic for you because it is the visual imaging sense that appears to hold the non existence world together for most. It is the "glue" that holds the illusion together far more than the other senses.

Just be careful now, constantly stay in your sense of existence. Don'r get distracted, especially by boredom down the way and the thinking there must be more to this